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Translators' noticeboard
Translators' noticeboard

This is a noticeboard for all matters regarding translation of pages, and a meeting place for the translation administrators. Useful links: Documentation for the translation extension, Tutorial for translators. See also the sisterpage m:Meta talk:Babylon.

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Lua errors and template loops on translated pages

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The following translated pages have some lua errors (Category:Pages with script errors), template loops (Category:Pages with template loops) or some other template issues (Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls). It seems like the english versions of the same pages don't have the same issue. Can someone compare the translations to the originals and fix the template calls in translations, or even better keep text to translate separate from template calls.

Jarekt (talk) 13:15, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On some pages, I don't see any translations that need to be updated. There's nothing at Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag/ar that I could see. Similarly, on Commons:Copyright tags/General public domain/ar, there is only one paragraph translated. Rest is everything from the English version. Perhaps our template masters and expert TAs would be able to detect where this is coming from. @Ameisenigel and @Tacsipacsi: do you apparently see any problem? ─ Aafī (talk) 14:07, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is indeed not a new one. We have had a similar discussion quite some time ago ([1]). Unfortunately I do not know the solution for these problems. --Ameisenigel (talk) 14:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TheAafi and Ameisenigel: I was just looking at Commons:Copyright tags/General public domain/ar. I think the issue is trigered by use of {{Pg}} in page name translation of Commons:Reuse_of_PD-Art_photographs/ar. How do we fix it? --Jarekt (talk) 04:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the page name translation and it doesn't help. One of the reasons that might be causing this error is keeping too much codes and stuff inside translation markup. However, this requires a lot of manual working. ─ Aafī (talk) 05:40, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TheAafi: That fixed the issue on Commons:Copyright tags/General public domain/ar and Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag/ar pages. Thanks. --Jarekt (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve modified Module:Pg to handle errors instead of preventing them – this made the expensive parser function count on Commons:Threshold of originality/pt-br to go down from 501 to 498, bringing it just under the limit (and at the same time decreased the number of database rows, which is good for phab:T343131). The other two COM:TOO translations seem to have been fixed in the meantime (before my edit to Module:Pg).
Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Consolidated list South America/mk is simply too big, I don’t think we can do much about it – except for asking someone to finish the translation, as the lot of <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> markup increases the page size considerably (a plus of about 21-22 kiB if I count correctly, or ~1% of the include size limit of 2 MiB). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tacsipacsi, I guess Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Consolidated list South America is just too big and might need to be split into smaller regions. @Aymatth2: , as a creator of this page. Do you think we can split it into East/West or North/South, or into some other logical groupings. File:South America Color-coded Regions.png seems to show regions but without names. --Jarekt (talk) 14:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can take a shot at splitting it up along the boundaries of File:South America Color-coded Regions.png, which I would call Southern Cone, Western, the Guianas and Brazil (which does not need an entry). But I will ask for some help in sorting out the translations. My skills are getting very rusty. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:24, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I suppose there is not much to translate, and no big hurry. I doubt that these overview pages are viewed very much. They were mainly made to ease the transition from one huge page with all the copyright rules to pages for each country or territory. Aymatth2 (talk) 15:19, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aymatth2 and Tacsipacsi: The errors in Commons:Threshold of originality/be-tarask and Commons:Threshold of originality/pt-br reappeared. The page Commons:Threshold of originality uses 133/500 expensive parser functions while /be-tarask and /pt-br versions have over 500 of them. I was trying to figure out where are they coming from and {{Commons policies and guidelines}} template is responsible for many of them. {{Commons policies and guidelines/en}} has 71 {{Pg}} templates is using 71 expensive parser functions, while /be-tarask and /pt-br versions have 147 expensive parser functions. I wonder if we can rewrite that template somehow to use less expensive parser functions. Maybe we can call something else than {{Pg}} or write something similar to {{Lle}} to cash info on existing and not existing translations of each page and periodically refresh the list. Another option is to figure out where the rest of expensive parser functions come from. Any ideas? --Jarekt (talk) 04:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid I am out of my depth here. {{Pg}} is very widely used, though. Better would be to fix it to avoid the expensive parser functions. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jarekt: Sorry for the slow response. I fear almost all expensive parser functions (both those that can be seen on Template:Commons policies and guidelines/be-tarask and those that can’t) come from Module:Pg: the module checks if the target page exists in the current language if the current language is not English (and assumes it does if the current language is English). This cannot be avoided without serving tons of red links to users. Doing something like {{Lle}} is not impossible, but maintenance would be a pain – much more so than for {{Lle}} itself, because one needs to account for different pages existing in different languages, and translation pages aren’t directly editable anyway.
My only guess is inventing a new parser tag, which can handle these links much like normal links, with the only exception being that it doesn’t change the link color (i.e. CSS class) when the page doesn’t exist, but rather changes the link target to point to Special:MyLanguage. Since red links don’t count as expensive parser functions, hopefully these wouldn’t either. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:14, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A handful of File: namespace timed text translations still exist

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Does anyone here have experience with migrating timed text to its new namespace and can do so for the pages listed below? I have noticed that just a handful of these pages keep showing up on some maintenance pages I frequent (Special:UncategorizedPages and Special:UncategorizedFiles).

The pages are:

Clay (talk) 16:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not about how new the namespace is (notice that TimedText:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm.en.srt was created three days before File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt), it’s about how easy translating the subtitle is. Ideally, TimedText was integrated with Extension:Translate to allow translating the closed captions in the right namespace (which wasn’t unprecedented, e.g. CentralNotice is integrated to allow translating central notices), but we’re (AFAIK) not there yet. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:55, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I understand your reply. Does that mean these pages are now fine to delete? Or does someone need to look through them and migrate them from the File namespace to the TimedText namespace manually? I see on e.g. File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt/de and other similar now-deleted pages that most of these were deleted at the end of last year. Clay (talk) 18:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ideally, phab:T44495 would be resolved before deleting anything. However, given that there was zero progress in the past almost seven years, it seems unlikely to be resolved in the near future. In that case, I’m not sure what the best solution is. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As one can see on File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt/de, it was deleted after having been transferred to TimedText:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm.de.srt. Translations like File:.../srt/.. have been a good idea but they are completely useless for the videos they are connected with. --Achim55 (talk) 19:14, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, didn't notice this topic earlier. Months ago I created User:Achim55/TimedText pages to be checked and since then I'm working on that step by step. --Achim55 (talk) 18:54, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At Category:Timed Text in file namespace, I made a maintenance category for those, to avoid they keep appearing on Special:UncategorizedPages (VP/T).
Please mark the two for translation so the category gets added to all language versions. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This wouldn't actually require the category to be translated, but just add it there. It has been done for "File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt" in the meantime. For "File:Wikipedia on GLAM-Tour Kulturkooperationen für lokale Wikipedia-Gruppen.webm/srt", if one doesn't want the deletion request to appear on all versions, one could remove that first and readd it afterwards. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Enhancing999 I marked File:Wikipedia on GLAM-Tour Kulturkooperationen für lokale Wikipedia-Gruppen.webm/srt for translation at your request. However, I have discouraged it from being translated. Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:52, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Commons:Village_pump/Technical#Template:Userpage_formatting

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 You are invited to join the discussion at Commons:Village_pump/Technical#Template:Userpage_formatting. Sdkb talk 16:43, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Sisterprojects

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I began the process of switching ~150 Category:Sisterproject templates to modern translation format. I created Template:Sisterprojects/i18n and a calling template {{Sisterprojects}}, now I am working on moving translations from old format to the new. Templates waiting to be moved can be found in Category:Sisterproject templates and the one I already did in Category:Sisterproject templates (unified). I can use some help, with the transition process as it takes longer than expected. Jarekt (talk) 12:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also can someone look into "bh" language? it is mostly translated but does not have Template:Sisterprojects/i18n/bh subtemplate. --Jarekt (talk) 12:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jarekt: Great job. I am done with 85% translation of the Urdu version. ─ Aafī (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Patrolling translations

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How are edits like Special:Diff/901608551 reverted? --Geohakkeri (talk) 13:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Geohakkeri: In some cases, it does allow you to revert these translations with the rollback tool. In others, you just need to review the history and manually restore the translation. Even so, the edits were reverted and restored.--Mazbel (Talk) 05:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In that specific case the problem was that it was the first translation for that segment. So there was no version to revert the Translations: page to as I did in Special:Diff/901611873. Achim55 deleted the translation – was that indeed the only option? If so, how is a translation like that marked as a CSD? Simply by applying the {{SD}} template? It feels a bit silly, somehow. --Geohakkeri (talk) 15:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A recommendation!

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Can we make a recommendation somewhere that folks who ask for TA rights provide a sample first per internationalisation guidelines before they are granted the flag? This is so because on Commons, if anyone asks for the flag at BN, a 'crat would unlikely get into a lot of stuff related to i18n - I just realised this should be mentioned somewhere that although the flag is granted by a 'crat, it is recommended to produce a translation markup sample? Opinions or do you think I'm being too bureaucratic? Regards, Aafi (talk) 09:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issue with Commons:Flickr2Commons

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So this project page was once translatable, but the user John Cummings made some big changes, and it became no longer translatable. So we now have a bunch of subpages (Commons:Flickr2Commons/de, Commons:Flickr2Commons/zh) which are no longer connected to any translation units, and a bunch of translation units (Translations:Commons:Flickr2Commons/1/de) which aren't connected to anything. Though someone has updated Commons:Flickr2Commons/es manually. I have created User:Matrix/sandbox3 which has translate tags.

So is the following ok?

  1. Delete all the old translation units
  2. Delete all the language subpages except es
  3. Replace Commons:Flickr2Commons with User:Matrix/sandbox3 and mark for translation
  4. Use Special:PageMigration to migrate Commons:Flickr2Commons/es manually.

—Matrix(!) {user - talk? - uselesscontributions} 06:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Matrix. The page was removed from Translation by @Jdx on 25 May 2017. Current revision can be prepared and marked for translation, and we can easily restore any previously existing translation units if they are up-to-date. #4 is tricky because the subpage is not a part of translation system. It would need to be manually copied over unit by unit. Regards, Aafi (talk) 16:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
but since translation exists, we won't be losing anything in the process. Any excessive and unrequired stuff at the end can be deleted. Regards, Aafi (talk) 16:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I won't suggestion deleting old translation units, neither deletion of sub-pages. Keep them as they are. Mark the current revision for translation. Keep the history of subpages intact. Easily bring up translations from there. Delete anything that seems irrelevant. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Matrix and Aafi: It would be a bad idea to delete old pages that have already been translated. In fact, if you mark the main page for translation (Commons:Flickr2Commons), including the languages: de, zh, es as translation priority, they should be excluded and you may get a "translation out of date" message. Regarding this page (Translations:Commons:Flickr2Commons/1/de), it would be better to delete it, as it would be orphaned.--Mazbel (Talk) 02:12, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've marked Commons:Flickr2Commons for translation and migrated the es subpage, is there anything else to do? —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - uselesscontributions} 06:32, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Picture of the Year

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Could someone please mark Commons:Picture of the Year, Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Rules, and Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2023/Help for translation? Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 19:25, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZI Jony: ✓ Done --Mazbel (Talk) 22:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mazbel thanks. Could you please mark Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Rules for translation again! Sorry! Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 02:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ZI Jony: Done! Regards --Mazbel (Talk) 03:17, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just updated Commons:Picture of the Year/2023, could you please mark the latest version for translation? Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 09:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Required assistance to mark Commons:Picture of the Year/Committee and Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Rules for translation. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 19:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done --Mazbel (Talk) 20:19, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please enable subcategorizing translated pages

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meta:Community Wishlist/Wishes/Enable subcategorizing translated pages on Commons. I think that's currently not possible and I only found this page about the translate extension. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Prototyperspective: It is possible. I have already fixed some stuff and will take care of others in a while. Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:43, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done - taken care of: those requested through here. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:50, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great, thank you! So much cleaner and now the pages on there are more discoverable. I think I'll mark the proposal as already-solved then albeit I think it would be best if that was done automatically or if normal users could fix that too. However, I guess there's not that many meta pages on WMC so at a later point I could also send you all the cats with other ones with the same problem if you're okay with that – then it would be solved until people create new pages (then somebody else would have to notice this and ask about it here if I don't). Could you also implement it for this cat? Prototyperspective (talk) 19:04, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to drop a list of categories. I'd be glad to offer my help. ─ Aafī on Mobile (talk) 19:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As Pppery suggested elsewhere on Meta-Wiki, this would need a one-time assistance from a TA who needs to mark a page for the translation after a magic word has been added to have the category translated. Pppery has also supplied a diff: you can also review my recent contribs to know what exactly needs to be added to have issues like this sorted out. One time help from a TA is nonetheless necessary - here, on Wikidata, Meta, MediaWiki - wherever the issue comes up. ─ Aafī on Mobile (talk) 19:13, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thanks, it's these: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19. Sorry that's quite a few. Prototyperspective (talk) 20:43, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All okay. You can just reformat the categories on the base-page as [[Category:Name{{#if:{{#translation:}}|/Translations}}]] (whenever you come across)- and publish the change. This would hit trigger Special:PageTranslation and once an Translation admin marks the pending change for translation, the translations sub-pages would all move to /Translations page. This would also save a TA's time. I mean it is tedious to individually go to a page, add the magic-word, and then mark it for translation. I have taken care of whatever is in 1, 3, 4 above. Regards, Aafi (talk) 07:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for explaining and documenting this here. The issue will surely reappear if that base page is not added by default by the translation tool and I probably haven't checked all pages. I didn't list pages that contain nearly only one page and a few of its translations...once there are more pages in that category (especially some that are also translated) it would be useful if they were put into a subcategory. The cat "2" didn't show up because I missed the colons in the wikilink. Pages in these categories seem to be nearly the only ones that need the reformatting so it would be solved once 1-19 have been addressed. Thanks for fixing those of 1,3,4! Does this page need some change or does it only take a while until its translations (which btw are incomplete) move? Prototyperspective (talk) 09:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As said previously, unless and until the categories in a base page [usually at the bottom] do not contain the magical word (see above/See Special:Diff/948442390), and then are marked for translation by a TA (see log action)- this marking would automatically categorise the translation whether they are complete or not. 2 has also been taken care of. Regards, Aafi (talk) 09:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ameisenigel: I'd appreciate your help whenever you are free. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So this about categorizing all translatable pages in the mentioned categories into the "translated" categories, correct? --Ameisenigel (talk) 22:02, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ameisenigel, but into /Translations sub-category. Kinda like this: Category:Commons help/Translations Regards, Aafi (talk) 16:02, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have done a few like in your diff above. Please let me know if this is correct. Thanks, --Ameisenigel (talk) 16:05, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ameisenigel, forgive me: there was a slight error on my side with that diff. The actual magic word would be: {{#if:{{#translation:}}|/Translations}} Regards, Aafi (talk) 16:15, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, I have only edited ten pages and can fix this directly. --Ameisenigel (talk) 16:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Translations to be moved

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User:Umarxon III has translated a lot to Uzbek language. That's really fine, but they got the wrong variant. Instead of "uz" (or even "uz-latn") they took "uz-cyrl". I don't know how to fix that correctly. Can anyone help? Affected are Commons:User access levels/uz-cyrl and Commons:Upload Wizard/uz-cyrl. Thanks! --Achim55 (talk) 20:48, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Achim55 The individual Translations: namespace pages have to be moved. I'll take care of it, once they stop adding new ones. Just left them a talk page message. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 21:26, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have moved the translations from uz-latn to uz-cyrl. A few notes:
  • Moving translation units doesn't create the relevant translation page, you'll have to edit a translation unit in Special:Translate for that to happen
  • Even if the translation page is already created, moving units to it won't affect the edit history of the translation page. While the units maintain their history, there is no obvious link from the translation page to the translation units so attribution may need to be added in an edit summary.
  • The Translate extension prevents most methods of dummy edits. You could add a comment somewhere or add an extra space between sentences, but I just decided to add !!FUZZY!! and then remove it.
  • The interaction between translatable pages and LanguageConverter is still messy. It looks like some languages have translation into LanguageConverter-supported variants disabled, but Uzbek doesn't. That probably means I should have moved these to uz, and we should get uz-* disabled. I can work on that unless there are objections for some reason I'm overlooking.
AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 04:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The nonexistance of a <notranslate> tag

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I apologize if this is the wrong place but I was recently working on Template:Move/i18n and put |user = {{subst:REVISIONUSER}} but due to the translation restrictions it wouldn’t append I think a no translate tag would work for this as this is a code bit and could be marked as a minor like not done tag for articles so users can easily apend text to different languages Cyberwolf (talk) 19:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Translate-tagger

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Hello dear fellow TA's, Together with my friend @Gopavasanth, I am co-mentoring development of a tool that we currently call "Translate-Tagger", to support translation markup. I am personally hoping the tool to provide automated <translate> markup, including tvar support and alongside issuing markup for categories used within a page. We have a dedicated Phabricator ticket for this, and I welcome your input. Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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