User talk:Verdy p/archive20

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For contacting me by email, please see also fr:Utilisateur:verdy_p, or use my talk page at fr:Discussion Utilisateur:verdy_p (on my home wiki): I don't want to monitor changes in all wikis, notably with emails formatted in various languages depending on the source wiki, or from unadministered small wikis harvested by spammers, or dummy "welcome" messages sent by bots). You can write me on my talk page of any Wikimedia wiki, I'll be notified from any Wikimedia wiki (because I'm connected with a SUL-enabled account) even if you can't send emails from all wikis. You should still be able to send emails from my home wiki (preferably in English or French if you can, but you should try to use some automatic online translators for your posts).
Thanks are always welcome: many users forget to do that. But this helps proving that our work is appreciated, and that we just try to do cooperatively our best on this wiki, hopefully without breaking, cancelling or blindly reverting all the patient work made by us or by others, and that some of our possible errors or disagreements can be fixed or negociated easily, without causing major troubles with a few intolerant Wikimedia users (who forget the community rules, and "overreact" for what is a minor issue or just a disagreement of personal opinions on specific topics). There should always exist a way to coexist even in case of disagreement. So don't forget the neutrality and politeness rules of Wikimedia (see for example Category:Wikipedia policies and guidelines).
Please sign and date your posts on my talk page (so that they can also be archived correctly):
Just add four tildes ~~~~ at end of your message, and it will look like this signature (with your name and the new date): verdy_p (talk) 01:13, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Category:Most_populous_cities_of_the_world

Category:Most_populous_cities_of_the_world has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:39, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Weather_and_climate

Weather and climate has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

Josh (talk) 22:34, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:French_referendum_maps

French referendum maps has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

LucaLindholm (talk) 10:18, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

File:Diagram of the human heart (cropped).svg‎

N. Sami multilingual

N. Sami monolingual

Why do you claim that multilingual SVG files have been deprecated?[1] They are the whole point of SVG Translate.

Clearly the translations have some issues, but that does not mean the SVG does not contain N. Sami. Glrx (talk) 22:04, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm just saying that "SVG translate" is being phased out, making these embedded translations very unstable (with various issues, including for the validation which does not work as expected).

Given that there's a separate file for Northern Sami (which is linked in the description), we don't need to add a duplicate entry showing English only in the category and galeries when we just preview it. The fact that it may eventually be displayed in Nortnhern Sami, using a special syntax, with a "lang=" option for the "File:" wikilink, whose support is very unstable, and frequently requires adjustments for metrics or position of labels, and specific fonts that are needed for some scripts, or will vary depending on the environment, means that such "translatable SVG" is just a source that is hard to use, and from which derived versions for specific languages and where all characters have been converted to glyph shapes, will always be needed). Translatable SVG cause lot of issues as most often they don't render accurately on all devices: they are just intermediate formats from which derived files can be produced, but almost always need to be readjusted (in your example, you can perfectly see that some Northern Sami label are truncated). For now this SVG extension is still very experimental and needs further work to make it usable on Commons or Mediawiki SVG renderers in general.

It is then sufficient to indicate that it contains SVG switches for several languages, but given that all works to make derivations has been made and are listed in derived versions, we don't need this overcategorization, otherwise we would categorize in all listed languages. verdy_p (talk) 22:14, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

State - County Template help

I've seen you've edited State-County templates and was wondering if you could look at 2 of them and possibly find the errors in them. Both the Florida and Alabama templates appear to be broken somewhere. If you look at 'Template:Counties of Florida' or 'Template:Counties of Alabama' you'll notice each one has a county that is in blue font when the rest are in red font. 'Template:Counties of Tennessee' and 'Template:Counties of Georgia (U.S. state)' are all in red. In the template around the county that is in blue there is probably a syntax error of some type. The user that created them speaks German which I don't so I'm trying to go through the Florida and Alabama template to find the error with no luck so far. Thanks for any help. Mjrmtg (talk) 23:55, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• On the Florida one, it's simply because there is a gallery page Pinellas County, Florida but none for any other Florida county. I suspect it will be similar for the others. - Jmabel ! talk 00:38, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Thanks for that info - didn't know that was the reason. Trying to add the 'Template:Counties of Florida' to Category:Florida State Road 121 in Union County but it isn't working once added. Mjrmtg (talk) 11:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Convenience link: Template:Counties of Florida. - Jmabel ! talk 15:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

• @Mjrmtg: That's because the template requires a form like "FOO County, Florida" in the category name, but Category:Florida State Road 121 in Union County (and presumably its analogues) use the form "FOO County" (no state). Have you bothered looking at the template at all? - Jmabel ! talk 15:07, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the template page itself, it is normal that it shows red link, because for that page it is displaying all possible names by default and the preview does not specify any prefix (so that preview in the Template space, uses links to galery pages (it is the documented default when there's no prefix) and not to categories. In actual pages using the template, prefixes/suffixes are set as needed. In the doc subpage you cna make a sample showing results with a prefix. Such navox is not limited to link categories, it can as well link galery pages (if they exist), or pages in other namespaces (e.g. talk pages, or other project namespace listing counties, for example to track progresses, or make todo lists). It's not specific to Florida or Georgia, this works exacttly the same for all similar navoboxes listing countries, or cities, of subnational regions, or sport teams). Thes templates are generic as long as your poerly set the precfix and suffix.

note that for subcategories of State roads, using prefixes/suffixes may work with names like "State road 121 in <County X, Florida>", instead of "<Florida> State road 121 in <County X>"; The template does not support moving out the ", Florida" suffix out of the country name, and placing it in the prefix. In fact there are very few categories using such scheme, and even that State road should not attempty to link all counties of Florida (no sense) when it traverses just very few ones. such navbox template should not be used for that.verdy_p (talk) 15:37, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jmabel: The template works with Category:Florida State Road 10 in Duval County, Florida so I thought it'd work with Category:Florida State Road 121 in Union County but it doesn't. Mjrmtg (talk) 09:57, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@Mjrmtg: for exactly the reason that Verdy p and I have both just explained. - Jmabel ! talk 14:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It could work if categories with the extra ", Florida" suffix (duplicating the "Florida " prefix) were redirected. This works without redirect with Category:Florida State Road 10 in Duval County, Florida because there's such duplication of the State name. An alternative if you don't want duplicate state name would be "Category:State Road 10 in Duval County, Florida" and "Category:State Road 10 in Union County, Florida", using only the suffix to give the state name. In that case the template works without any change and without needing any redirection. verdy_p (talk) 18:46, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Category:Countries template with invalid parameters

I was notified about Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/07/Category:Countries template with invalid parameters. You might to also have a look. Johnuniq (talk) 04:25, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

You should have read the statement describing the category: all is correct (I just aded some other comments). But do'nt use a "CfD" there. That categopry is completely accurate. I fixed a few templates using the Coutnries tyemplated that also were using incorrect dummy parameters. All other listed pages are category pages that were effectively incorrectly created and must be fixed (only some will be removed automatically because they use the Country tempalte via another template that I just fixed). verdy_p (talk) 06:42, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Category:Past_Summer_Olympics_pictograms

Category:Past_Summer_Olympics_pictograms has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category. In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

186.174.74.45 11:43, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Category:Maps of groups of communes in Rhône et Category:Maps of groups of communes in Rhône (department)

Bonjour,

Cela n'a pas d'intérêt d'avoir deux fois la même catégorie.

Cordialement, Vargenau (talk) 17:27, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Ce n'est PAS deux fois la même catégorie: une pour la circonscription départementale, l'autre pour le département inclus dans la première à coté de la métropole. La description est claire pourtant !

Il y a un mélange entre les anciennes et nouvelles collectivités. Les catégories restent séparées, notamment tout ce qui touche le gouvernement, les élections, les politiciens, l'histoire, les institutions et les cartes associées. Ce n'est pas parce qu'une entité entité n'existe plus aujourd'hui qu'ielle disparait des contenus. De même les nouvelles existent indépendamment, les contenus décrits valalbes hier ne changent pas de statut pour autant, ils restent attachés à la date où les entités sont effectives. Et sur Wikidata il faut aussi ne pas tout mélanger. verdy_p (talk) 17:39, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Bonjour,

Désolé, je m'étais fondé sur les noms des catégories, pas sur les descriptions. Les noms des catégories devraient être rendus plus explicites, ce n'est déjà pas facile à comprendre pour un Français, alors je doute qu'un étranger puisse comprendre.

Cordialement, Vargenau (talk) 08:06, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Bref je vosi que tu passes du temps à supprimer trop rapidement des choses qui sont en cours de reclassement (et qui ne sont pas faciles à trouver, les alias sont utiles aussi pour les recherches, et le nom des articles Wikipedia n'est pas le seul critère car des articles sont fusionnés ou scindés selon les cas, et citent des synonymes usuels, qui servent à la recherche sur Wikidata et c'est bien pour cela qu'on a des "alias de libellés", qui ne sont PAS les "liens wiki" stockés séparément). verdy_p (talk) 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Bonjour,

Les alias sont utiles en tant que synomymes pour les entités du monde réel. Les catégories sont des objets techniques des wikis Médiawiki, pas des entités du monde réel. Le fait de mettre des alias qui n'existent sur aucun wiki ne fait qu'ajouter de la confusion et surcharge les pages.

Cordialement, Vargenau (talk) 08:13, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Les aliases permettent de trouver les entités et aussi d'afficher les bon libellés traduits (sans être nécessairement liés aux noms des pages des différents wikis dans les différentes éditions avec diverses conventions car ces catégories n'existent pas partout sur tous les wiksi dans toutes les langues). Ce sont des outils de recherche, le libellé principal affichant ce qui serait le libellé idéal à afficher dans les infobox et sans aucune conséquenece sur les liens interwikis et les noms des pages wiki liées et comment ces pages sont structurées/fusionnées/dissociées. Ces alias ne sont pas affichés, ils servent avant tout à la recherche sur Wikidata et à faciliter la saisie, notamment pour éviter la création d'éléments en doublon ou pouvoir les référencer où il faut. Il y a diverses conventions de nommage utilisées sur les divers wiki, certaines pas complètement orthodoxe, et on ne peut pas tout corriger sur les cenaines de wikis. Les aliases sont particulièrement utiles en anglais (pour toutes les langues) et dans la langue officielle de l'entité (là aussi tout n'est pas "carré", mais tout corriger sur les divers wiki prend trop de temps). Au moins cela doit être correct sur les wiki internationalisés comme Commons (mais là encore Commons n'est pas "carré" dans ses conventions de nommage). Trouver ces catégories et les lier aux éléments n'est pas facile: j'ai déjà eu à fusionner après coup divers éléments, notamment pour leurs contruction et référencement, et c'est à ça que servent ces aliases, surtout en phase de construction pour être sûr de n'oublier personne. verdy_p (talk) 09:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Why the category name change?

Why did you move Category:Sønderjylland-Schleswig Region? All the associated wikipedia articles are Region Sønderjylland-Schleswig and this move is sure to confuse a few people. Hjart (talk) 10:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

These are unified across languages and in parent categories, which I am also detailing more. They are in English (the euroregion is multinligual), and the term "Region" changes as well in various contexts (including in German); I want to make sure this indicates the euroregion.

Note that aliases are kept, including in Wikidata. verdy_p (talk) 10:53, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thinking a bit more about, I really think this move was a bad idea. Could you please move it back? Hjart (talk) 12:24, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

See both Denmark and Germany. You have no argument about why this is either "confusive" or a "bad idea". You just make an assumption on a monoligual context, which that region is not. verdy_p (talk) 12:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello

Salut,

Ce type de changement est probablement une erreur [2], "Factories in Montluel", incluse dans "Factories in Ain (monument historique) ? --Benoît (d) 18:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Pas du tout. Ce sont bien des usines (peut-être anciennes mais classées en tant que telles), et déjà classées en monument historiques, et comme étant dans l'Ain, je n'ai fait que sous-classer "monuments historiques dans l'Ain" vers "monuments historiques dans l'Ain (usines)". verdy_p (talk) 18:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Ceci dit les métadonnées d'avant dans certains fichiers étienet peut-être déjà fausses et il n'y a vait peut-être pas de classement historique. Je n'ai pas vérifié avant de sous-catégoriser. J'ai trouvé ces images dans les monuments historiques non classés, je n'ai pas regardé chacque image pour voir ses données. verdy_p (talk) 18:28, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Bon je viens de regarder dans le détail, et tu as raison. Je ne sais pas pourquoi cela apparaissait dans une liste de monuments historiques (quoique pour l'ancienne papeterie, elle est restaurée, et protégée avec des panneaux, et sans doute classée ou au moins inscrite, sinon qui aurait financé seul une telle restauration des piliers, gradins, et jardins pour y mettre des panneaux descriptifs, ce qui suggère une ouverture aux visiteurs? et pas un aménagement privé par exemple pour un hôtel ou un restaurant, une résidence et c'est visiblement fait pour accueilir aussi du monde et des spectacles). verdy_p (talk) 18:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Category:1 person/Category:1 people

Could you explain your page move here? "1 people" is not grammatically correct, per the previous move - see Category talk:1 people. --Ferien (talk) 22:40, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

The only reason is the navbar at top, no objection if it remains as a redirect, but may be the navbar may avoid using it. However this uses a tricky template:Group which just assumes a plural and currently has no support for singular variants to replace parameter 1 ("people", "objects", ... that should then become "person", "object") and looks for categories named with an English plural (and generates the autocategorisation as well). If that template is fixed to accept a singular variant, things could be simpler and we would avoid the redirect (for links in the navbar), but would also solve the categorisation problem (that does not work with any redirect on categories). verdy_p (talk) 08:25, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

If you are going to keep that as a redirect for technical reasons, fine, but it is an absolutely wrong category name. The only way "one people" means anything in English is a different meaning of "people," e.g. "The Germans stand as one people." - Jmabel ! talk 17:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for both of your comments. It is probably worth looking into the {{Group}} template to see if we can change it, as I imagine this is not the only situation in which this would apply. --Ferien (talk) 21:37, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@Joshbaumgartner: do you have any insight into this? - Jmabel ! talk 00:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jmabel, Verdy p, and Ferien: Category:1 people should be a redirect to Category:1 person, not the other way around. Contrary to what verdy_p states above, {{Groups}} does in fact contain support for singular names--it fetches the singular form from {{Groups/data}}. Unfortunately, in that template, someone changed the single form of people from "person" to "people", which may be the root of some of the problem (I have fixed this back to 'person'). The navbar portion, which is its own sub-template may still link to '1 people', when I have a chance I will see what is the issue there, but regardless, '1 people' should only be a redirect to '1 person'. Josh (talk) 05:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

The template:Groups is unfortunately poorly documented, and does not contain these details, forgetting parameters. verdy_p (talk) 05:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit request for Module:Roman

Hi! Could I ask you to take a look at my edit request for Module:Roman at Module talk:Roman#Edit request: add function p.Arabic? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:37, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I missed it at the time, but I see you made some improvements in Module:Roman/sandbox! Everything looks good to me. Is there anything else that needs to happen before you update the main module? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

I did not forget your request, but no admin has seen your edit request to sync the base module with the tested sandbox version. I cannot edit it now even if I was the main author. Your edit request was forgotten by them, did you post the edit request to the proper page? verdy_p (talk) 06:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

A troll hole - Template:LangSwitch/sandbox

A troll recently discovered they could edit Template:LangSwitch/sandbox and have their little decoration propagate to tens of thousands of pages.

special:Diff/806490085

As best I can tell, this is an opportunity that you opened up by adding /sandbox to calls of {{LangSwitch}} in various templates. I found these two: special:Diff/587667941 to {{Tick}} and special:Diff/586955451 to {{Century}}, both in August 2021 - I suspect there are more. Can you remember what you were doing back then and back out the loopholes? Jmcgnh (talk) 06:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh: Because the server isn't good at tracking "what links here" through templates, all of the templates that invoke {{Century}} were still listed at Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:LangSwitch/sandbox. After a somewhat insane number of null edits to those templates (while listening to a couple of podcasts) it looks like there is nothing left to worry about. There are still a ton of Category pages listed, but none of those seem to actually invoke the sandbox... they are just the server being slow at figuring it out. Jarnsax (talk) 13:56, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

COM:AN/U

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Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems#Verdy p. This is in relation to an issue with which you may have been involved.

-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 15:02, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh / Artsakh

Hi, These categories were already deleted a few days back. You must stop revert back and forth. Yann (talk) 09:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

What? Can you point a link? I don't remember working at this in the last "few days". But if there are documents about this entity, they should exist as such (Commons has many categories for former entities for historical reasons and we cannot mix the topics with other entities that were separate). verdy_p (talk) 11:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You might want to look in (and/or weigh in) at Commons:Village pump#Nagorno-Karabakh village name categories all being changed into Azerbaijani if you haven't already. I think we are getting close to a consensus. It would probably good if not too many changes are made before we reach one. - Jmabel ! talk 18:18, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Changes of names is OK as long as they refer to the same entity as Azeri synonyms. But if they related to different entities, we need separate categories and must not erase the history, IMHO: instant deletion is clearly a NPOV violation and should not be tolerated on Wikimedia. Pro-Azeri can have their categories and topics, pro-Armenians can preserve their own, and notably when documents are dated are relate to different adminsitrations and cultures. But as far as I've seen, you still don't give any example of something that I would have "recreated a few days ago". So May be you're looking too far back in the history. I have never used an approach that violates the NPOV, and if both topics are existing (at same, intersecting or different periods, and on the same, intersecting or different periods, they should coexist, as aliases only if topics have the same coverage). verdy_p (talk) 18:22, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Please, if you have something to say here that would concretely address how we should proceed, could you weigh in where the group is trying to reach consensus, rather than just on your own talk page? - Jmabel ! talk 21:57, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I already did that ! verdy_p (talk) 21:57, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

"Category:Ink stones" as a duplicate of "Category:Inkstones"

Hi there, recently you created Category:Ink stones (note the space) even though Category:Inkstones (note the lack of a space) already exists. I am wondering if this might've been in error or if there is some distinction that I may be missing. Thanks and take care. —The Editor's Apprentice (Talk) 05:08, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

That's unexpected, they can be merged. I found the orthography with a space and searched it on Commons, did not find a category, so the category was created. I suggest keeping the redirect as both orthographies are used including on Commons within various file descriptions or in text contents. So now these categories are merged. verdy_p (talk) 08:07, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply, I see that you already redid Category:Ink stones as a redirect and moved all the files in that category to Category:Inkstones which I agree seems like the appropriate action in this case. Thanks for taking responsibility for the change and I hope you take care! —The Editor's Apprentice (Talk) 00:42, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm locked at home today, surrounded by floodings, but my home is still safe after the 3 storms, and massive rainfalls. verdy_p (talk) 10:32, 5 November 2023 (UTC)