Commons:Deletion requests/2024/11/27
November 27
[edit]No FoP in Romania, sculptor Cornel Medrea died in 1964 and Ion Jalea died in 1983
- File:Bucharest - Gara de Nord (2023) - img 03.jpg
- File:Bucuresti, Romania, Gara de Nord (Statuia); B-II-m-B-18803 (6).JPG
- File:Gara de Nord -Vedere din piata.jpg
- File:Gara de Nord, Bucuresti -c.jpg
- File:Monument of the Railway Heroes, 1916-1918, Bucharest North Railway Station (27993454664).jpg
- File:Monument of the Railway Heroes, 1916-1918, Bucharest North Railway Station (28610793335).jpg
- File:Monumentul Eroilor CFR (2).jpg
- File:Monumentul Eroilor CFR.jpg
- File:RO B Northern station statue.jpg
A1Cafel (talk) 00:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The concern voided by @A1Cafel seems to be over the sculpture. The nearby station was finished in 1872. Yet he or she listed images where the sculpture is very small, like File:Gara de Nord.JPG amd File:Gara de Nord, Bucuresti -c.jpg Geo Swan (talk) 01:11, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- File:Gara de Nord.JPG looks de minimis to me (File:Gara de Nord, Bucuresti -c.jpg is definitely not), but I thought I remembered reading that Romania doesn't recognize the concept of de minimis. I don't see any mention of that phrase in Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Romania, so I think someone must have posted an excerpt from a court decision in another deletion request thread, but there's no way on Earth that I would find it. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ikan Kekek Romania does have some de minimis concept, which is analogous to Eastern European and Soviet Union-style FoP condition. The de minimis concept for public landmarks already exists in their laws, pre-empting potential contradictory court rulings. Romania, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghizstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Slovenia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, and Montenegro all have very identical FoP rules that state it is allowed to freely shoot, share, and distribute images of public landmarks, unless the landmarks themselves became the main objects of the images, to which free use – which includes commercial uses – is no longer legal. Meaning, images should only show those landmarks in a de minimis (in Eastern European standards, "not the main object") manner. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contributions) 07:11, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks very much, and Happy New Year! Could you possibly add that to the copyright pages for those countries? That would be very helpful. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- @Ikan Kekek Romania does have some de minimis concept, which is analogous to Eastern European and Soviet Union-style FoP condition. The de minimis concept for public landmarks already exists in their laws, pre-empting potential contradictory court rulings. Romania, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghizstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Slovenia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, and Montenegro all have very identical FoP rules that state it is allowed to freely shoot, share, and distribute images of public landmarks, unless the landmarks themselves became the main objects of the images, to which free use – which includes commercial uses – is no longer legal. Meaning, images should only show those landmarks in a de minimis (in Eastern European standards, "not the main object") manner. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contributions) 07:11, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- File:Gara de Nord.JPG looks de minimis to me (File:Gara de Nord, Bucuresti -c.jpg is definitely not), but I thought I remembered reading that Romania doesn't recognize the concept of de minimis. I don't see any mention of that phrase in Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Romania, so I think someone must have posted an excerpt from a court decision in another deletion request thread, but there's no way on Earth that I would find it. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Not clear pic Soumava2002 (talk) 08:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Under some circumstances a file can be summarily deleted at the request of the uploader (COM:CSD#G7), but this doesn't appear to be such a case. This file is currently in use, it falls within COM:SCOPE, and (as far as I can tell) we don't have a better photo of this subject. Marbletan (talk) 18:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep Author requested deletion 13 days later. The accusation "Not clear pic" is false. Taylor 49 (talk) 22:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Soumava2002, did you shoot the photo? Please answer and tell us what you used to shoot it, if you did. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I feel like everyone is ignoring the bigger issue, which is that this user's uploads are of small photos that lack good metadata, and they never say whether they actually shot them, when asked. It's true that small file + problematic exif is an insufficient reason to delete per Com:dr, but how about that plus an uploader who's active refusing to ever state whether their "own work" claims are accurate? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:53, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Acceptable quality, within scope. Dmartin969 (talk) 02:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Apparently taken from [1]; the file is mirrored. Rosenzweig τ 09:14, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep File is from 1998, other page claims to be from 2007. Dmartin969 (talk) 02:31, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Dmartin969: But it is the exact same photograph (just horizontally mirrored). The 2007 date at [2] does not seem to be the date the photo was taken, but when it was edited or uploaded to the site. See [3]: dated to 2003 in the headline, but with a 23/12/2007 date below the text. --Rosenzweig τ 08:43, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete The user uploaded systematically copyvios, so it is difficult to see it is own work. The photo is the same as reported by Rosenzweig. Günther Frager (talk) 08:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Esfarvarin ans shal and Takestan, Segzabad is TAT people. (Wrong and false map) Qazvingram (talk) 11:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy keep per COM:INUSE. Argue about the map at fa.wikipedia.org and/or its talk page, and you can put a content disputed template on it. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
This map has Deleting the people of Tat these areas. It has no source and is purely a personal work. Esfarvarin, Takestan, Danesfehan, Segzabad, Shal is Tat people Qazvingram (talk) 20:31, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Only used on a user talk page in hebrew wiki, serves no actual purpose. Users123tps (talk) 12:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per COM:INUSE "The uploading of small numbers of images (e.g. of yourself) for use on a personal user page of Commons or another project is allowed as long as that user is or was an active participant on that project." Dmartin969 (talk) 02:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
duplicated of this image that has the right license Paperoastro (talk) 12:58, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Paperoastro: If it's a duplicate, you shouldn't open a DR, but just use {{Duplicate}} in the target page. Ruthven (msg) 14:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ruthven: Thank you for your clarification. I have just ask the deletion of three images with the same reason. If it is a problem, you can cancel my requests: then I will use the duplicate template. --Paperoastro (talk) 15:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Paperoastro As they are files that I have uploaded myself, I'd rather not to. Ruthven (msg) 20:11, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ruthven: Thank you for your clarification. I have just ask the deletion of three images with the same reason. If it is a problem, you can cancel my requests: then I will use the duplicate template. --Paperoastro (talk) 15:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Advertising, out of scope, and DW image. P 1 9 9 ✉ 16:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete not in scope. Iwaqarhashmi (talk) 17:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't see a scope issue here. Advertising is not inherently out of scope, and a rural community advertising to get a doctor to move there seems to me to be historically interesting. The image might be a problem (though I don't know why we are presuming that the community in question did not clear the rights before licensing the ad; usually we assume government bodies got that right); if it is, we can certainly cover it with a Gaussian blur or a description of what it showed without significantly diminishing the educational/historic value of the file. Let me know if someone wants that done, and which approach (Gaussian blur or description) is preferred. This, of course, assumes the license came from the copyright-holder of the text in the ad, not the historical society that is reproducing it. - Jmabel ! talk 19:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Because this is an old version of the logo. I already uploaded the latest version. Blastparade (talk) 17:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Unless this company is notable, the new logo and this file should both be deleted. If the company is notable, the fact that this is old makes it historical, and "old" is never a deletion reason. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
User cannot be author of selfie of another person Friend (talk) 17:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep perfectly possible someone uploaded a selfie of themself. Dmartin969 (talk) 03:25, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry for not providing the details: Special:Contributions/Genamb consists of stolen photos (Commons:Deletion requests/File:Крук Максим Олександрович.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Журавель Віталій Дмитрович.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Гнатушок Віталій Миколайович.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Занозюк Олександр Петрович.jpg). Person on this photo was killed in action on 01.04.2023, while User:Genamb states that this he is an author of photo, uploaded on 08.04.2023. Friend (talk) 17:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Closed discussions from Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Samral
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Several non-trivial logos claimed to be PD because of inegibility (File:AzPFL_logo.jpg), claims that files are released under CC without evidence (File:Isa Gambar (1).jpg), files supposed to be in PD because of age but undated (File:Pənahəli xan.jpg) or created long after the limit for copyright expiry (File:Səməd Vurğun (Pekin, 1955).jpg). In at least one case, the claim of authorship seems to be simply false (File:Cəmil Həsənli (21.09.2013).jpg).
Underlying lk (talk) 00:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
File:İçərişəhər DTMQİ icazə vərəq 1.jpg, File:İçərişəhər DTMQİ icazə vərəq 2.jpg and File:Bakı şəhərində M.Ə.Rəsulzadənin abidəsinin ucaldılması haqqında 26 saylı qərar (13.01.1993).jpg my images.
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
= PD-old-70. what's the matter ?--samral talk 23:39, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Juggler2005 (talk) 00:05, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
File:Yeni nəbz qəzeti.jpg File:Azərbaycan İslam Partiyasının loqosu.png File:AzPFL logo.jpg File:The Gospel of Barnabas (Samuel Green).jpg File:AHC logo.jpg File:KHC logo.jpg File:Isa Gambar (1).jpg--samral talk 13:20, 15 December 2014 (UTC) I thought that there is copyright of the logo.--samral talk 13:22, 15 December 2014 (UTC) 2 pictures below is from a Pakistani newspapers of the 1890 scan. Article "Peshawar Nights" about the book. If you want to learn, you know that when researching the book printed: File:"Dürrü Nəcəfi" jurnalının 1-ci səhifəsi.jpg File:"Dürrü Nəcəfi" jurnalının 2-ci səhifəsi.jpg.--samral talk 13:25, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
File:Azərbaycan İslam Partiyasının loqosu.png File:AzPFL logo.jpg File:The Gospel of Barnabas (Samuel Green).jpg File:AHC logo.jpg File:Sabir bağı (1930-cu il).jpg File:Su kəməri və kanalizasiya qədimdə.jpg File:Nizami Gəncəvi - Qəzənfər Xalıqov.jpg File:Səməd Vurğun qohumları ilə.jpg File:Səməd Vurğun həyat yoldaşı ilə.jpg File:Səməd Vurğun iş otağında (1954).jpg File:Səməd Vurğun (Pekin, 1955).jpg File:İncil nüxəsi (XVI əsr).jpg File:The Twelve Imams.jpg File:The Twelve Imams(1).jpg File:Pənahəli xan.jpg File:KHC logo.jpg and File:Isa Gambar (1) You know, because I've installed incorrectly delete. File:İçərişəhər DTMQİ icazə vərəq 1.jpg, File:İçərişəhər DTMQİ icazə vərəq 2.jpg and File:Bakı şəhərində M.Ə.Rəsulzadənin abidəsinin ucaldılması haqqında 26 saylı qərar (13.01.1993).jpg belongs to me. My. Prove otherwise if the command is not so--samral talk 16:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Kept: Procedural close. Please renominate in smaller batches. Natuur12 (talk) 23:06, 27 December 2014 (UTC) Deleted: per nomination. --Minorax«¦talk¦» 14:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Photos from a book published in 1990. No evidence that they are in the public domain. Commons:Project scope/Evidence: "In all cases the uploader must provide appropriate evidence to demonstrate either that the file is in the public domain or that the copyright owner has released it under a suitable licence. (...) In all cases, the burden of proof lies on the uploader."
Juggler2005 (talk) 16:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Deleted per nomination. --Krd 13:28, 22 January 2015 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Artwork. No date, no author information. No evidence that these pictures are in the public domain. Commons:Project scope/Evidence: "In all cases the uploader must provide appropriate evidence to demonstrate either that the file is in the public domain or that the copyright owner has released it under a suitable licence. (...) In all cases, the burden of proof lies on the uploader." Juggler2005 (talk) 16:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
File:AzPFL logo.jpg Delete File:The Gospel of Barnabas (Samuel Green).jpg Delete File:AHC logo.jpg Delete File:Sabir bağı (1930-cu il).jpg Delete File:Su kəməri və kanalizasiya qədimdə.jpg Delete File:Nizami Gəncəvi - Qəzənfər Xalıqov.jpg Delete File:Səməd Vurğun qohumları ilə.jpg Delete File:Səməd Vurğun həyat yoldaşı ilə.jpg Delete File:Səməd Vurğun iş otağında (1954).jpg Delete File:Səməd Vurğun (Pekin, 1955).jpg Delete File:İncil nüxəsi (XVI əsr).jpg Delete File:The Twelve Imams.jpg Delete File:The Twelve Imams(1).jpg Delete File:Pənahəli xan.jpg Delete File:KHC logo.jpg and Delete File:Isa Gambar (1) Delete--samral talk 18:33, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Deleted 2 files per nomination. (Discussion for the rest sadly is not comprehesible. Please renominate if necessary.) --Krd 13:31, 22 January 2015 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Copyright for these files is claimed to have expired, but the author and date of publication are missing (Naməlum means 'unknown'), therefore the claim is impossible to verify.
Underlying lk (talk) 17:01, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Ok. I agree Delete. But No. Because its scans pages of Journal of Durru Najafi article about of "Peshawar Nights". And Peshawar Nights is a Shi'a book by Sultanu'l-Wa'izin Shirazi[1] ("Prince of Preachers from Shiraz")[2] recounts a public debate between Shi'a Muslims and Sunni Muslims. The debate took place in the city of Peshawar in the North-West Frontier Province (present-day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) in Pakistan of British India beginning on 27 January 1927. References 2015-1927=88. And 88>70 :)--samral talk 20:14, 14 February 2015 (UTC) Deleted: except the two. Natuur12 (talk) 22:28, 4 March 2015 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Photos made by azerbaijani photographer Ehtiram Jabi and previously shared social network [5]. Most likely grabbed by Samral somewhere from social media.
--Sefer azeri (talk) 20:03, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Deleted: The images bore no resemblance to user's own photography, including metadata. User has never claimed to be Ehtiram Jabi except for these seven pictures. COM:OTRS can be filed by Mr. Jabi at any time, should he so desire, and the images could be restored. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:41, 26 October 2015 (UTC) Deleted: per nomination. --Ymblanter (talk) 18:20, 14 September 2019 (UTC) Deleted: per nomination. --Ymblanter (talk) 17:12, 15 September 2019 (UTC) Deleted: deleted by Ymblanter. --Christian Ferrer (talk) 17:07, 8 October 2019 (UTC) Deleted: per nomination. --Gbawden (talk) 06:37, 9 October 2019 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
False dates of shooting, unlikely to be uploader's work.
Patrick Rogel (talk) 22:00, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Deleted: per nomination. --Gbawden (talk) 06:37, 9 October 2019 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
http://sia.az/az/news/politics/745641.html
Patrick Rogel (talk) 18:34, 8 October 2019 (UTC) Deleted: per nomination. --Gbawden (talk) 06:37, 9 October 2019 (UTC) Deleted: Deleted by someone else. ~riley (talk) 05:11, 13 October 2019 (UTC) Deleted: as above. ~riley (talk) 05:58, 13 October 2019 (UTC) This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Patrick Rogel (talk) 19:22, 8 October 2019 (UTC) Deleted: per nomination. --Gbawden (talk) 08:50, 15 October 2019 (UTC) |
Possible COM:FLICKRWASHING, every one of these images was uploaded to Flickr as PD 1.0 a week or so before it was uploaded to Commons. In each case the Flickr user has uploaded no other images.
- File:Qlobal TV yaşıl.jpg
- File:Qlobal TV yaşıl masa.jpg
- File:Qlobal TV yaşıl stul.jpg
- File:Qlobal TV göy.jpg
- File:Qlobal TV qırmızı.jpg
- File:Elvar Osmanov.jpg
- File:Mətləb Ağa.jpg
- File:Elgiz Əlizadə.jpg
- File:LANDAU uğur 4.jpg
- File:LANDAU Kindergarten 1.jpg
- File:LANDAU PreSchool 3.jpg
- File:PreLANDAU 4.jpg
- File:LANDAU Xeyriyyə 1.jpg
- File:Landau Xeyriyyə 2.jpg
- File:LANDAU Academy 3.jpg
- File:LANDAU Academy 2.jpg
- File:LANDAU Academy 1.jpg
- File:LANDAU PreSchool.jpg
- File:LANDAU PreSchool Xətai.jpg
- File:LANDAU Kindergarten.jpg
- File:LANDAU School logo.png
- File:LANDAU School Asset.png
- File:Orxan Bayramov.jpg
- File:Vahid Məmmədli 2023.jpg
- File:Mollalar Əşrəf.jpg
- File:Rəhman Abdullayev.jpg
- File:Səbuhi Qarayev.jpg
- File:Şəmil Sadiq.jpg
- File:Rövşən Abdullaoğlu Afrika (1).jpg
- File:Rövşən Abdullaoğlu Afrika.jpg
- File:Rövşən Abdullaoğlu Antarktida buz.jpg
- File:Rövşən Abdullaoğlu kitab sərgisi (2022).jpg
- File:Rovshan Abdullaoglu Readers’ Favorite.jpg
- File:Rövşən Abdullaoğlu Antarktida Azərbaycan bayrağı.jpg
- File:Rövşən Abdullaoğlu Antarktida.jpg
- File:Rovshan Abdullaoglu (cropped).jpg
- File:Rovshan Abdullaoglu.jpg
File:Çinarə Köçərli (2020).jpg--Krd 10:06, 25 June 2023 (UTC)- File:Nəcəf Allahverdiyev.jpg
- File:Eldar İsmayılov (ictimai xadim).jpg
- File:Lalə Ədalətqızı 2022.jpg
Belbury (talk) 10:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- VRT is receiving several tickets related to this DR, but up to now none of it was confirmed. --Krd 12:41, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Belbury, I did not upload any of these photos to Flickr. Each image has been uploaded by its author. I just explained the rules and procedure to them. I have informed all the authors of the picture. Each of them gives and will give more detailed information about it by mail. samral talk 15:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
All were deleted already, except one, which is kept. —Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Two drawings sourced to news sites that simply include the picture at the top of a story with no credit or discussion of it. The uploader says on their talk page that they believe these drawings to have been "taken around the 19th century", but I don't see a reason to dismiss the possibility that - where the author and original source are unknown - they are modern paintings in a particular style.
Belbury (talk) 18:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Deleted: by Krd. --Min☠︎rax«¦talk¦» 00:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Files in Category:Addington Highlands
[edit]Unused photos of non-notable people at non-notable events, no educational value, out of scope.
- File:Addington Highlands Business Breakfast -9 May 2009 (13909725210).jpg
- File:Addington Highlands Business Breakfast -9, May 2009 (14096773554).jpg
- File:Addington Highlands Outstanding Business 2012 (13909723050).jpg
- File:Gordon & Carolyn McCulloch- Community Builder Award 2012 (14096320395).jpg
- File:Larry Pealow and Andy Anderson- Community Builder Award (14082525116).jpg
- File:Margaret Axford & Ian Brumell - 2010 (13909692187).jpg
- File:Margaret Axford - Community Builder Award 2010 (13909692327).jpg
P 1 9 9 ✉ 20:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep these came from the Flickr account of a local historical society. Unless we think there is a copyright issue, I'm inclined to keep such things. We never know who might be researching the place in question at some time in the future and find these useful. They are certainly at least as likely to be of interest to some future historian than our innumerable images of comparable WMF-related meetings and events. - Jmabel ! talk 18:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Your comment is not aligned with Commons' scope. Commons is not a simple mirror of local community archives, so we don't have the same inclusion criteria. As for research, these images will continue to be available at the source (where researchers would go first anyway), but within the scope of Commons, images of totally non-notable persons at some minor local event have little to no value here (this is obviously subjective but precedents here on Commons have set the bar much higher than these people). --P 1 9 9 ✉ 14:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Logo designed by British artist John Pasche (b. 1945). Günther Frager (talk) 22:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Info File has a COM:VRTS permission tag. If you have doubts about the permission please ask Commons:Volunteer Response Team/Noticeboard.--Wdwd (talk) 13:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Derivative work of the logo designed by British artist John Pasche (b. 1945). Günther Frager (talk) 23:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Cette image est une copie non permise de https://armorialdefrance.fr/page_blason.php?ville=20791 —Ssire (talk) 07:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC)