Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Atwngirl

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files uploaded by Atwngirl (talk · contribs)

[edit]

These dorney-related items appear to all have been published after 1989 in the United States. Per COM:HIRTLE, the items depicted in these photographs/scans would be copyrighted in the United States by virtue of their publication at that time. We would need a free license from the copyright holder of the underlying works depicted in the photos, but we do not appear to have that. As such, these should be deleted for lacking evidence of a free license of the underlying works produced by Dorney.

— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 06:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --IronGargoyle (talk) 01:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files uploaded by Atwngirl (talk · contribs)

[edit]

These are photographs of the covers of yearbooks from a high school in Allentown, Pennsylvania that are known to have been published after January 1, 1989. Each of these covers is above the threshold of originality in the United States, and there is no Freedom of Panorama in the United States that would exempt the covers of these yearbooks from copyright protection when photos are taken of them. There is no evidence that the copyright holder of these yearbooks has released these under a free license, even if the photos themselves contain a free license from the photographer. As such, these should be deleted as lacking evidence of a free license from the copyright holder of the yearbook cover design.

— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 06:52, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --IronGargoyle (talk) 01:59, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files uploaded by Atwngirl (talk · contribs)

[edit]

The uploader indicates that these postcards were published in 1995. As these are postcards published in the United States after 1989, these are copyrighted in the United States and we would need a valid free license from the copyright holder to host them on Commons. However, while there is evidence that the individual who scanned these postcards has agreed to release their scan under a free license, we don't appear to have evidence that the copyright holder of the postcards has released them under a free license. And, for that reason, we should delete these postcards.

— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 07:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --IronGargoyle (talk) 02:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files uploaded by Atwngirl (talk · contribs)

[edit]
  1. File:2022 - Dr. Alfred J. Yost - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1907)
  2. File:2022 - Werner Knauss Rhue - Allentown (A.jpg (died in 1904)
  3. File:2022 - Harry G. Stiles .- Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1908)
  4. File:2022 - Colonel Frank R. Fischl, Jr.- Allentown PA.jpg no notice, we have the photographers signature and the year, but no copyright symbol
  5. File:2022 - Malcom W. Gross - Allentown PA.jpg 1935 image, no renewal by photographer or Allentown
  6. File:2022 - John T. Gross - Allentown (A.jpg published in 1960 in The Morning Call, no renewal
  7. File:2022 - F. Willard Harper - Allentown (A.jpg no copyright notice
  8. File:2022 - Dr. Theodore Conrad. Yeager - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1874)
  9. File:2022 - Donald V. Hock - Allentown (A.jpg no copyright notice
  10. File:2022 - Charles O. Hunsicker - Allentown PA.jpg circa 1910
  11. File:2022 - Samuel Milton McHose - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1893)
  12. File:2022 - Raymond B. Bracy - Allentown (A.jpg no copyright notice
  13. File:2022 - Herman Schuon - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1912)
  14. File:2022 - Henry Willard Allison - Allentown (A.jpg (died in 1913)
  15. File:2022 - George F. Erich - Allentown PA.jpg
  16. File:2022 - Edwin S. Shimer - Allentown (A.jpg (died in 1902)
  17. File:2022 - Dr. Henry Herbert Herbst - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1911)
  18. File:2022 - Dr. Edwin G. Martin - Allentown (A.jpg (died in 1893)
  19. File:2022 - Colonel Tilghman H. Good - Allentown (A.jpg (died in 1887)
  20. File:2022 - Clifford S. J. Bartholomew - Allentown PA.jpg no copyright notice
  21. File:2022 - Charles W. Rinn - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1920)
  22. File:2022 - Brighton C. Diefenderfer - Allentown (A.jpg
  23. File:2022 - Joseph S. Daddona - Allentown PA.jpg
  24. File:2022 - Alfred L. Reichenbach - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1920)
  25. File:2022 - James L. Schaadt- Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1924)
  26. File:2022 - Fred Ewing Lewis - Allentown PA.jpg circa 1920, we have a photo dated 1917
  27. File:2022 - Dr. Charles D. Schaeffer .- Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1923)
  28. File:2022 - Dr. Alfred J. Martin - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1896)
  29. File:2022 - Colonel Samuel D. Lehr - Allentown PA.jpg (died in 1915)
  30. File:2022 - William L. Heydt .- Allentown PA.jpg post 1989, needs VRT
  31. File:2022 - Roy C. Afflerbach - Allentown PA.jpg post 1989, needs VRT

Relevant discussion related to two of these these files can be found at User talk:King of Hearts#File:1969 - Lafyette Electronics - Allentown PA.jpg, User talk:Atwngirl#Own work photos and 2D copying. The primary issue is that these files are photos taken by the uploader of other photos hanging on some wall in the city hall of en:Allentown, Pennsylvania. Since these file's uploaded seem to be slavish reproductions of photos taken by someone other than the uploader, the {{Cc-by-sa-4.0}} licenses the files were uploaded under don't seem correct since no new copyright would've been created for the photos taken by the uploader. The copyright status of the original photos themselves does matter, and it would be assumed that their respective copyright holders would be the person or persons who took them, unless they were a en:work for hire or their copyright was transferred to some other party. There's no information provided about the en:provenance of the original photos so there's no way to assess their copyright status. The uploader states they were given permission by Allentown mayor en:Matthew Tuerk, but it's not clear whether (1) the mayor has the authority to do such a thing or (2) this would be equivalent to the mayor giving his COM:CONSENT even if he does. So, it would seem that, at the very least, some sort of more formal VRT verification would be needed per item 1 of COM:VRT#Licensing images: when do I contact VRT? in order for Commons to keep these.

I've numbered the files to make them a bit easier to discuss. Three of the photos (Nos.4, 5 and 20) seem to be watermarked in one of their lower corners; this could be the name of the studio or person who took the photo, but I'm not sure. Some of them may have already entered into the public domain for one reason or another, and these probably just need to be relicensed with a more suitable license with {{Licensed-PD-Art}} being added as a wrapper for the photos. Those that aren't clearly PD, however, may need to be deleted if copyright holder's consent can't be verified. If the copyright holder for these is the Mayor of Allentown or the City of Allentown, one CONSENT email to VRT to cover all of the files would seem to be all that's needed. Finally, some of the files (Nos. 2, 6, 7, 12, 14, 16, 18, 19 and 22) might needed to be renamed if kept since it appears "(A" was typed by mistake when uploading the file instead of "PA". Any renaming should probably be non-contentious per #3 and #4 of COM:FNC. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:59, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Keep Those taken before 1989. Up until 1989 you still had to register for a copyright. Up until 1977 you had to display a copyright symbol and a year. Up until 1964, you had to register, then renew the copyright. I'm assuming these are the official portraits and were taken when they entered office. For post 1989, we would accept a VRT from the town clerk declaring "no known copyright restrictions" just like we accept the same from Flickr Commons from other jurisdictions. Changed the signed ones to the correct author, and mark the others as author=Anonymous, and change the licenses to the various correct ones for the original. --RAN (talk) 05:14, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • If any of the above can be verified to have been clearly taken before March 1, 1989, it might be OK to relicense them as PD and then replace the CC licenses for the photos with "Licensed-PD-Art". Since, however, there isn't really information about the provenance of any of the files in their respective descriptions, there's nothing really to go on other then assuming that they were taken during the subject of the photo's time in office. Perhaps en:Mayors of Allentown, Pennsylvania can help eliminate the obvious ones (i.e. the pre-1928 ones), but then again not all of the files listed above are being used in that article. Moreover, some of the files listed above also seem to have been uploaded more than once at different times by the same uploader under slightly different names (e.g. like File:2022 - Raymond B. Bracy - Allentown (A.jpg (No. 12) also uploaded as File:1969 - Ray B Bracy.jpg, and File:2022 - George F. Erich - Allentown PA.jpg also uploaded as File:1944 - George F Erich.jpg); this could help clarify things or it could just make more things to try and sort out. The uploader seems to have uploaded many files as "PD-ineligible-no notice" just because there's no visible copyright notice directly within the photos themselves even though copyright notices often appeared in borders or on the backs of photos, and photos in printed publications didn't necessarily need to be provided with separate individual copyright notices if they weren't part of an advertisement. Since the uploader tends to provide very little if any information at provided about the provenance of the photo, find the COM:EVID to verify the "no notice" claims has become rather hard. It's also hard to just assume good faith that the uploader's evaluation of each file's licensing is correct given all the file related notifications on their user talk page and the large number of the their uploads that have been deleted. Some of the pre-1963 "no notice" photos might've originally been protected by copyright, but are OK to be relicensed as {{PD-US-not renewed}}; once again, though, that is going to involve quite a bit of educated guessing given what little information has been provided about the provenance of each photo. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Atwngirl: I changed the license for one: File:2022 - Colonel Tilghman H. Good - Allentown (A.jpg and estimated correct dating. The uploader might want to create Wikidata entries for each person, and add "position_held=Mayor of Allentown, Pennsylvania" so that we get an update of the chart: wikidata:Talk:Q99627141. I started with Tilghman H. Good. I will work on more, but it is very time consuming. --RAN (talk) 13:13, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It looks like some of the early images were also published in "Historic Homes and Institutions and Genealogical and Personal Memoirs of the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania", a public domain book with biographies of prominent people of the Allentown area. The uploader used the versions displayed in City Hall which are better copies. The Morning Call newspaper of Allentown also displayed the same images when the mayor was elected. The Morning Call did not renew copyrights which takes us up to 1964, but we have contrast problem and a resolution problem. See: Category:Alfred John Yost to see multiple versions of the same image of varying quality. --RAN (talk) 18:43, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will strike out clearly pd ones too after I do the review, if it is ok with you. We can both look at ones that approach the copyright border where we will need a VRT from the township. --RAN (talk) 13:40, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • If some of the images are clearly PD (or at least can be reasonably assessed as such) and relicensed as such, then they should be OK to keep, shouldn't they? Since {{PD-US-not renewed}} doesn't include 1963 (at least I don't think it does), I'm not sure where the 1964 date is in reference too, but if anything published between January 1, 1928, and 1 Janaury 1963, can also be converted to PD, then that's a good thing in my opinion. I'm not sure what happens to images guesstimated to have been taken between January 1, 1963 and March 1, 1989. I believe publication and copyright registration stopped being requirements in 1978 but a notice was still required up to March 1989. Perhaps any images assumed to come from that period could possibly be {{PD-US-no notice}} or {{PD-US-1978-89}}, but it's hard to really say so simply because there's no visible copyright notice on the front of the photo. Anything after March 1, 1989, probably needs VRT verification to be kept. Personally, I've got no problems with images being struck out since they're still there for others to see and assess. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:04, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have struck out some photos where the depicted person died more than 95 years ago. -- Robert Weemeyer (talk) 22:44, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Let me know if you want to help with wikidata:Talk:Q99627141 to build the list of mayors, you just add position=Mayor_of at the person's entry, and the chart gets updated. Peek at one of the formatted ones to see. It took me forever to work on all the popes. --RAN (talk) 05:30, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Problematic ones are in bold and may require a VRT from Allentown, Pennsylvania town clerk. The images are on display in the city hall, an image of the new mayor is added each year, so we know images were "made public", but post 1989 images will still be copyrighted. --RAN (talk) 18:53, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • How are you assessing that photos taken between January 1, 1963, and March 1, 1989, are "PD-US-no notice"? Are you simply going by the file that was uploaded or have you find some of them being used in other print publication? I don't think it can be assumed that such photos are no notice just because there's no visible notice on the front of the photos themselves. Notices didn't always appear on the front of a photo during that error. Even in the case of those photos with visible watermark-like names of the photographer/studio that took the photo, I don't think it can be automatically assumed that they had no notice just from the front of the photo. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:50, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        • I called the clerks office and the person who answered the phone, not the municipal clerk, confirmed that images are on public display (publication in its legal meaning), and a new image is added when the new mayor is sworn into office. We can demand that they take the images down and scan the back, but I have not seen a commercial photographer add a copyright notice on the back, in any of the images that have been up for deletion in the past 10 years. In the cases where we demanded a scan of the back, there was never a hidden copyright notice. Where we have found a copyright symbol, they have been found on the front. See for example: Category:Bain copyright notice. For those from 1977 to 1989, they still required registration in the copyright database within 5 years. I have not see any of the names of the sitters, or the two names of the photographers we have identified. It is a shame that the images scanned from the local paper and the two books, are so highly compressed as jpgs, they are almost unusable. I also found a few errors, one person misidentified and a few errors in the dates served as mayor. I fixed in the Wikidata entries I created. --RAN (talk) 06:23, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
          • Once again, I do really appreciate your time and energy in helping to sort these files out. As long as any significant doubt about the licensing of a file is removed, it should be OK for Commons per COM:PCP. I'm not sure whether We can demand that they take the images down and scan the back, but I have not seen a commercial photographer add a copyright notice on the back was meant as snark or was a serious suggestion, but I don't think we need to go that far. If it was snark, then I think you'd be better off directing that at the uploader since they are the person who created this situation. FWIW, it's not just these files but many other files uploaded by the same user which have questionable licenisng that either need to be or are currently being sorted out; moreover, this seems to have been an issue brought up before by others based on all of the notifications posted on the uploader's user talk page, Anyway, if the clerk's office can send in a VRT consent email for the post-1989 photos, perhaps it would also be able to send one for the 1963-1989 photos as well just to support the "no-notice" claims. There are, after all, quite a number of photos uploaded by others to Commons from that same time period which provide a way (either by separately uploading their backs uploaded or by links) to more thoroughly verify any "no notice" claim; so, it's not all that unusual to ask about this form of verification. Finally, I'm assuming this edit to File:Joseph Samuel Daddona (1933-2004).jpg was just a mistake and you meant to relicense the photo as "PD-US-no notice" instead of "PD-US"; so, I changed the license to "PD-US-no notice". If it wasn't a mistake, then I don't see how the photo can be "PD-US", but I might be missing something. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:23, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not snark, sorry you took it that way, just an observation from a decade of image research, we loaded over 1,000 images from eBay over the years from various photographers and news agencies, and have been uploading the back for those that were up for deletion, where the nominator wanted to see the back. I am not aware of ever finding one, maybe somebody has. The ones we did find were on the front already in the image, and those images were deleted. You will probably find more mistakes, please make any needed changes, when you are working with multiple tabs opened it is easy to cut and paste to the wrong image, I worked all weekend on the project. It will take several editing passes to be error free. I like your use of the art template which gives a license for the original and the derivative. For the two mayors where we may delete the image, I found replacements from their high school yearbooks. I will look for their college yearbooks in the future, which will have a more adult looking face. I think the uploader volunteers at an archive, I suggested they get a Flickr Commons account where they can release material under "no known copyright restrictions". --RAN (talk) 04:04, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: Mostly. Deleted two that require VRT. Kudos to RAN for his effort in sorting out these files. --Abzeronow (talk) 17:09, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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