Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Giuseppe Capogrossi

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Giuseppe Capogrossi

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Unfortunately there's no FOP in Italy and the artist of these paintings, Giuseppe Capogrossi, died in 1972. So these images are copyrighted until at least 2043 unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary.

Adamant1 (talk) 11:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

we generally assume that cultural institutions "have the legal right to release images under a creative commons license, and they have cleared the rights through their legal departments." No we don't. And as you should be aware from previous DRs BEICs licensing of photographs by Fondo Paolo Monti is questionable at best, if not totally bad at worst. As much as you can point out that one DR related to BEIC that was kept I point out multiple other ones where the outcome was that images were deleted. One's that I'm pretty sure you participated in. Just to reiterate what I said in the other DR for whomever closes this though Commons:BEIC clearly says their claim that Paolo Monti obtained the rights to the buildings from the originals architects is "the story of the photos as they know of it" and that even if he did retain the rights, said rights specifically only covered "future publications authored by Paolo Monti." Commons and re-users of the image clearly aren't Paolo Monti. So the images can't be hosted on Common based on their own licensing terms. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it was before the other one closed keeping the images, I wasn't aware of this practice before reading that other DR and I couldn't cite it as a precedent. Anyway the first one doesn't have to do with BEIC. Friniate (talk) 10:31, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK. There have been ones having to do BEIC and photographs from them by Paolo Monti that were deleted because of the questionable license on their side though. But I'm more then willing to leave it up to whomever closes this to decide if their own license terms restrict reusage like I think they do or not. Otherwise, I guess one of us could start a discussion about it on the Village Pump so it can be clarified, but I rather we didn't. Although it would be good if there was clear consensus about it either way. Instead of every other DR involving images from BEIC being deleted or kept based on whomever closes it at the time. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:07, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File:Ines morigi, su dis. di giuseppe capogrossi, superficie 332, 1957.jpg - This one was specifically authorized via OTRS for WLM Italy 2016, so should not be deleted. Authortization is clearly stated in the file AND in the category of the museum. --Sailko ([[User talk:Sailko|

@Sailko: I moved your comment. I'd appreciate it if you didn't alter my comments or insert other people's words into them. Thanks. Also, just because there is an authorization from WLM Italy doesn't mean museum owned the copyright to the statue in the first place or could therefore give WLM permission to photograph it. There's been plenty of files uploaded as part of WLM projects, including WLM Italy, that have been deleted as COPYVIO. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:44, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is already been discussed so many times... I'm tired to explain all over again any time. It DOES NOT matter the agreement between the museum and the artist's fund, as long as the museum has guaranteed us to freely upload the images of their artworks, for that specific event. Any legal problem will be eventually addressed back to the museum. The authorization was explicit about the artworks, not generic (like they authorize the building, not the single items inside it), so this is not the case of WLM deletion for COPYVIO. PLEASE help me to find a better way to EXPLAIN this in the file description, as I am tired of having to discuss this every time. There have been deletion requests of these mosaics and models since 2016. Everytime the file was saved. Then there's another user asking again "Are we sure?" Yes - we are definitely sure by now. Thank you. --Sailko (talk) 12:05, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sailko: What part of me asking you not to edit my comments are you having such a hard time with? Seriously, stop doing it. There's already a comment from you saying the file has ORTS permission without you having to screw with the original nomination. Also, no one has nominated these image for deletion before. So your comment that there has been deletion requests of these mosaics and models since 2016 is patently false. Regardless, we don't just host images that might be copyrighted until any legal problems are eventually addressed back to the museum or whatever nonsense your going off about. The files have to be usable by anyone, anywhere, for any purpose and ones where the source of the files says the original artists only authored Paolo Monti to use the images for future publications clearly doesn't meet that standard. ORTS permission isn't a free pass either. Nor is getting defensive about it. --Adamant1 (talk) 16:00, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not syaing this single file was nominated before, but some else in the same category. You can understand it is very annoying to have somebody doubting again after 8 years of reviewing authorizations and legal aspects. Same about BEIC files, as Friniate already explained. This is a behaviour that wastes users' and admins' time, we could use to do something more useful for the project. --Sailko (talk) 18:29, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See this, closed with law citation by User:Ruthven --Sailko (talk) 18:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I don't really see how people nominating other files in the same category for deletion before is relevant to this. Like we can only nominate a certain number of images per category for deletion or something. That's not how it works. No offense, but I don't really care if you find the whole thing annoying. No one is forcing you to upload the files or participate in these discussions. It's your responsibility to make sure the licenses on files you upload are valid and verifiable. I've cited BEICs own terms as a reason why neither one of those. To which your only response seems to be going off about how inconvenient the whole thing is. It's no wonder this keeps coming up if that's how you respond to people.
As to the law cited by Ruthven, according to this website by the Italian government "The Art bonus allows a tax credit, equal to 65% of the amount donated, to those who make donations to support the Italian public cultural heritage." Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see how a law having to with tax credits has anything to do with whom owns the copyright to these paintings. So can you cite what part of the law you think is relevant here? --Adamant1 (talk) 05:10, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just a comment: the authorization was NOT from Wikimedia Italy, but from the museum Museo d'Arte di Ravenna and it's visible here. I understand that there have been doubts regarding the authorizations from BEIC, but sofar no one has raised doubts regarding the authorizations from this other specific institution. So I don't see why we should assume that they didn't have the right to authorize the WLM participants to take photos of their collections. Friniate (talk) 19:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarification. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it or anything if that one file is kept. The other ones should clearly be deleted though. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: most, whether through a WLM authorization or that we can trust BEIC here that they have cleared the legal rights. Deleted the last one, Undelete that in 2043. --Abzeronow (talk) 18:33, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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