Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:German stamps review delete

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:German stamps review delete

Recent postage stamps of Germany. All already in the delete category, but a DR was never filled. Most probably not in the public domain, as per the Loriot case. I excluded old stamps which should have a separate DR.

Yann (talk) 09:00, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose blanket deletion – As far as I remember, the stamps in the Loriot case were deleted because they contained artwork by Vicco von Bülow. I suggest that each of the stamps above needs to be investigated for copyrighted or copyrightable material. Some seem quite obviously to fail COM:TOO. Other have been designed by engravers employed by the West or East German postal services (government agencies). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:34, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought that these files were in this category because they were already reviewed?... Is there, here or on the web, a list of these engravers? Regards, Yann (talk) 13:59, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I found a list of stamp designers here: de:Kategorie:Briefmarke der Reichspost. Yann (talk) 15:28, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm not aware of any discussions on the merits of individual stamps in this list. All I can see are undiscussed additions of |reviewdelete=yes to {{PD-German stamps}} by the now retired User:Rd232. How the same user came to assign many of the images in Category:German stamps review keep to that category seems rather arbitrary to me; that's why I question the validity of mere membership in Category:German stamps review delete as the basis for this deletion request. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:07, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - AFAICT from a very quick look in the keep category, all recent stamps there show a work of art which is itself in the public domain. Regards, Yann (talk) 05:29, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Die de:Wasser- und Schifffahrtsverwaltung des Bundes zeigt auf ihrer Website einige der hier zu löschenden Briefmarken und schreibt dazu: "Die Leuchtturm-Briefmarken von 1974/75 wurden von der Deutschen Post der DDR und die Leuchtturm-Briefmarken ab 2004 von der Deutschen Post AG im Auftrag des BMF verausgabt. Sie sind nach § 5 Abs. 1 UrhG ein amtliches Werk. Nach dem deutschen Urheberrechtsgesetz sind sie somit gemeinfrei.". Es gibt bisher zwei sich widersprechende Urteile untergeordneter Gerichte, ein höchstrichterliches Urteil steht noch aus.Gruss --Nightflyer (talk) 12:55, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to COM:WikiProject Public Domain/German stamps review, § 5 (1) UrhG only covers text, but not images. Unfortunately, a stamp is an image, so stamps are not covered by § 5 (1) UrhG. --Stefan4 (talk) 18:53, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gilt das auch für das Recht der ehemaligen DDR? Bitte höchstrichterliche Urteile verlinken. Gruss --Nightflyer (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See de:Schutzlandprinzip. Article 5 (2) of the Berne Convention would appear to prevent West Germany from using exceptions in East German law to claim that a work isn't protected by copyright in West Germany. Therefore, I would assume that the united German state isn't allowed to make any difference between West German stamps and East German stamps. --Stefan4 (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment See COM:VPC#Maps in German law. --Stefan4 (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Es gibt bisher zwei gegensätzliche Urteile von untergeordneten Gerichten in Deutschland. Eine höchstricherliche Entscheidung steht noch aus. See: Wikilegal/Copyright of Images in German Postage Stamps: The Berlin decision in the Loriot case is only binding on the parties of the case, i.e. WMF and Loriot’s daughter, but may be predictive of how another court in Germany would interpret copyright law in the future.... Also bitte die Zukunft abwarten und nicht vorschnell löschen. Natürlich macht sich "Vorauseilender Gehorsam" ohne Gerichtsurteil immer gut. Gruss --Nightflyer (talk) 21:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep because of Nightflyer's discovery of declarations from the horse's mouth in his message 12:55 24 June 2014 (UTC). I agree with his sentiment cautioning against "preemptive obedience". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:08, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep --JWBE (talk) 13:34, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@JWBE, Michael Bednarek, and Nightflyer: All the stamps have a tag saying "This file is most likely NOT in the public domain." So what do you suggest?

Opening a separate DR for each stamp?
Changing the tag for another? Which one?
Something else?

I don't think doing nothing is an option here. Regards, Yann (talk) 08:05, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating ping: @JWBE, Michael Bednarek, and Nightflyer: Please see questuon by Yann above. Thanks!

Keeping Dr open until 7/5/14. Close DR if no response --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 05:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As Nightflyer pointed out, the "Leuchtturm" stamps have been declared "gemeinfrei" (public domain) by a federal agency; hence their deletion request should be closed as "keep". I also gather from the above discussion that no irrevocable judgement has been issued in the matter. Therefore, the obvious course of action, apart from doing nothing, is to conduct individual deletion requests for the others. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Michael Bednarek: If this is the case, could you 1. change the license of these stamps, 2. note them here (or elsewhere if it is more convenient for you). These stamps were tagged as not PD. So why were they tagged as such? How could we know which stamps are PD or not? Regards, Yann (talk) 08:34, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to recent court decisions and copyright commentary we can be very sure that stamps are not in the PD solely because they are public works. Each stamps requires an individual review of its copyright status. Stamps can still be in the PD when the motif does not reach the threshold of originality or the author has been dead for more than 70 years. Recent stamps, however, with a motif consisting of photos or drawings, are most likely not in the PD and have to be deleted. Therefore

Delete all of them after a new short review. Yellowcard (talk) 22:26, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the meantime, I reviewed all 128 files that are currently in this category.

Delete all of them except of:

File:100 Jahre Deutscher Werkbund - Postwertzeichen.jpg – We can maybe talk about COM:TOO
all DPB stamps with drawings of buildings: It seems like the drawings are quite old and the author is unknown. Maybe the drawings are old enough we can assume the author has been dead for more than 70 years, which means we could keep these stamps.
File:Georg Scheu-PK.jpg – when we come to the conclusion the stamp in the corner is protected, we can crop the file and at least keep the rest of it
File:Germany stamp type G1.jpg – most likely not protected due to COM:TOO
File:Mischfrankatur.jpg – needs individual review
File:Postkurs1490.jpg – date of drawings unclear, maybe old enough?
File:Stempel 27570 Bremerhaven - Gedenktag Grönlandexpedition Alfred Wegner 1930.png, File:Stempel 66333 Völklingen - Weltkulturerbe Alte Völklinger Hütte.png and File:Stempel 69117 Heidelberg, Neckar - Wiedereroeffnung-Bergbahnen-Heidelberg.png could be below COM:TOO
File:Stamps of Germany (Berlin) 1975, MiNr 508.jpg, File:Stamps of Germany (BRD) 1972, MiNr 746.jpg, File:Stamps of Germany (BRD) 1969, MiNr 592.jpg, File:Stamps of Germany (BRD) 1969, MiNr 593.jpg, File:Stamps of Germany (BRD) 1969, MiNr 594.jpg, File:Stamps of Germany (BRD) 1969, MiNr 591.jpg – date of drawings?

However, escpecially recent stamps containing photographs are obvious copyvios and should be deleted soon. Yellowcard (talk) 09:27, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, some of the stamps can be restored in not so far future, such as: File:DBP 1974 822 Max Beckmann, Großes Stilleben mit Fernrohr.jpg in 2021, File:DPAG 2008 Selma Lagerlöf, Nils Holgersson.jpg in 2023, File:Briefmarke Deutsche Post - Deutsche Malerei 2004- Felix Nussbaum mit "Das Geheimnis" scanned 2.jpg in 2015 (!). Yellowcard (talk) 09:35, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Was hat sich auf commons seit dieser Entscheidung geändert? Gruss --Nightflyer (talk) 11:33, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That one was obviously incorrectly undeleted and should be deleted again. --Stefan4 (talk) 18:18, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: except for the files mentioned by Yellowcard. Those file are not okey beyond a reasonable doubt, Yellowcard and Stefan gave some good arguments. Also part of Yann's critical questions remained unawsered. Natuur12 (talk) 11:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:German stamps review delete

Recent postage stamps of Germany. All already in the delete category, but a DR was never filled. Commons:WikiProject Public Domain/German stamps review.

Josve05a (talk) 18:02, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Natuur12 (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:German stamps review delete

User Robert Weemeyer failed and marked these files for deletion, via a PD-review (German stamps).

Josve05a (talk) 00:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. Christian Ferrer ^(talk) 22:51, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:German stamps review delete

Files in Category:German stamps review delete

Files in Category:German stamps review delete

Files in Category:German stamps review delete

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