Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 1

Per COM:FOP#France: non-free architecture by Léon Azéma (d. 1978), Max Edrei (d. 1972) and Jacques Hardy (d. 1974).

Eleassar (t/p) 13:26, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment FYI some of these files have already gone through RfD and were kept by Commons:De minimis : Commons:Deletion requests/File:0 Verdun - Ossuaire de Douaumont (1).jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cimetière - Douaumont.JPG, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Douaumont ossuar1y.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Douaumont ossuary during german occupation.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Douaumont ossuary6.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Imm011 Douaumont Ossuary.JPG, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Knekelhuis-verdun.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Ossuaire Panorama.jpg, etc. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 17:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think any of these meets the de minimis guideline. Whether the building is in the background or not is irrelevant. We've just had a comparable case here. Per COM:DM: "So, for example, if the poster forms an essential part of the overall photographic composition, or if the photograph was taken deliberately to include the poster, there is likely to be copyright infringement, and it is no defence to say that the poster was 'just in the background'." --Eleassar (t/p) 21:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would prefer to keep the pics, but if it's not possible (we'll see which decision will be taken in the end) it would be great that files concerning the cemetery are cropped instead of being completely deleted. Jeriby (talk) 04:04, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: per discussion except for those that are undoubtely focused on copyrightable subjects SERGIO (aka the Blackcat) 20:42, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 2

FOP France and family of deletion request for war memorials. The Douaumont ossuary is an ossuary and monument designed by Léon Azéma (20 January 1888 – 1 March 1978). Will wait to move to images to wikipeida until those images that are likely de minimis are identified.

Labattblueboy (talk) 07:28, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is starting to be little bit funny, but those images were suggested already twice to be deleted, last time December 2013. How often will they be nominated? Regards --Chmee2 (talk) 08:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hadn't noticed the previous request. That being said many are clearly not de minimus. Ex:
  • Beinhaus von Douaumont.JPG
  • Beinhaus von Douaumont (Panorama).jpg
  • File:Douamont, monument israélite.jpg
  • File:Douaumont ossuary during german occupation.jpg
  • File:Imm011 Douaumont Ossuary.jpg
  • File:Knekelhuis-verdun.jpg
  • File:Schankenhaus-Douaumont-w.jpg
  • File:Verdun Beinhaus Innen.JPG
  • likely File:Verdun Beinhaus von Douaumont (1601806154).jpg
Others are questionably de minimis because the cemetery was designed in conjunction with the architectural piece. --Labattblueboy (talk) 01:21, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
For instance, the previous conclusion for File:Douaumont ossuary during german occupation.jpg is clearly incorrect. The memorial is neither incidental, small or trivial element of the image. The intent to show the memorial in full is clearly deliberate which is a key element that voids this de minimis claim. French law requires that the inclusion of the subject not be intentional, and in nearly every image here it clearly is.--Labattblueboy (talk) 01:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Per the French exception, artwork must not be intentionally included as an element of the setting: its presence in the picture must be unavoidable. In what capacity do these images fit that description. In every case nominated (not every image was nominated) the memorial is framed in intentionally and the architecture of the building in clear (e.g. Not minor element of image). Just because you can't see the exact carvings in the building doesn't mean the image is free of copyright. The central tower rising from the long building is clearly unique and clearly that is copyrightable (partially covered in scaffolding or not).--Labattblueboy (talk) 20:29, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The scaffolding is the "event of the restoration", that's why I think the building is De Minimis. There are other pictures kept because of an event (for example Commons:Deletion requests/File:Tour de l Europe incendie Mulhouse20100116.JPG the file was kept because the event was a fire on the building).
  •  Delete While in many cases there is a sea of crosses in the foreground, in every image the eye is immediately drawn to the tower of the building which certainly has a copyright. The images would be very different if the tower were not in them. It would have been easy for the photographers to show us the sea of crosses without the tower by pointing the camera out from the tower instead of at it. The fact that the photographer deliberately included the tower when he or she did not need to makes it impossible to accept DM for any of them. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:57, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Delete None of the copyrighted work can be considered trivial of any of these, as per both Labattblueboy and Jim the copyright work has been deliberately included and is a significant element of the compassion. LGA talkedits 08:14, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Delete Per the already presented reasons; the previous closure was clearly incorrect. --Eleassar (t/p) 11:37, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep - For all the reasons they were kept before. Beyond My Ken (talk) 12:04, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Jeriby has commented specifically on File:Beinhaus Doaumont.jpg. I agree that there is no architecture there, but I'm not sure what there is -- this looks like personal art -- hands rising from a pile of bones? I don't see any educational use of it, so while it is off topic for the rest of the DR, there is no reason to keep it..     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 12:06, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it's useful to keep this one also, it illustrates bones of WWI soldiers dead at Verdun. It's not art, it's just bones, stored there (this is an ossuary). And it's a pile to illustrate how tragic could be this war. And there is a glass to protect these bones, that's why we can see the photographer. Jeriby (talk) 18:14, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Aha. Thank you for the explanation. I could argue that because the photographer is so much a part of the image that we should delete it on quality grounds, but it is an unusual image and probably should be kept. So, my opinion is delete all but this one. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 13:11, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment I just would like to comment that in the case of my upload File:Douaumont ossuary during german occupation.jpg the original picture got lost during an incident (for sure). I luckily found the more or less good scanned image after years on my HDD suffering significant compression artefacts (i did not know/ care about that as teenager). I decided to upload the image to the wikipedia in oder to have the best way digital historical images could be conserved and maintained. Now i see that it is harder than i thought. Ude 21:20, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment to User:Ude. Actually, you have accomplished your goal here. Commons keeps everything, and the plan is to keep everything forever. On January 1, 2049, when the architect's copyright has expired, these images will be restored to public view. In addition, they will remain available on request for fair use in places other than Commons..     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 17:30, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Deleted all but the one. There is no animosity here, but just simple respect for French law and the work of the architect who died in 1978. If it is not legal to keep an image, then we must not, even though we would like to do so. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:34, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 3

Per COM:FOP#France: non-free architecture by Léon Azéma (d. 1978), Max Edrei (d. 1972) and Jacques Hardy (d. 1974).

Labattblueboy (talk) 16:26, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Per the French exception, artwork must not be intentionally included as an element of the setting: its presence in the picture must be unavoidable. In what capacity do these images fit that description. In every case nominated (not every image in the categoy was nominated) the memorial is framed in intentionally and the architecture of the building in clear (e.g. Not minor element of image). The central tower rising from the long building is clearly unique and clearly that is copyrightable.--Labattblueboy (talk) 13:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete Jeriby. if you crop the four images and upload them over the existing ones before this DR closes next week, then they can be kept, with the current versions deleted. If not, they clearly show the copyrighted architecture and will be deleted, if not by me, then by one of my colleagues. In the case of the latter two images, the De minimis argument is silly -- while it is in the distance, the copyrighted building is the only thing of note in either of them. De minimis implies that the average viewer would not notice the removal or blurring of the problematic element -- these two images are far far from that. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 15:15, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Natuur12 (talk) 12:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
FoP cases in Category:Douaumont ossuary

No FoP in France, see also Category:Douaumont ossuary

Herzi Pinki (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 13:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Restored: File:0 Verdun - Cimetière de Douaumont (1).jpg compatible with French law (Terreaux court case). Yann (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 4

As previously noted. Per COM:FOP#France: non-free architecture by Léon Azéma (d. 1978), Max Edrei (d. 1972) and Jacques Hardy (d. 1974). None of the nominated are de minimis or exceptions under Buren v Editions Cellard.

Labattblueboy (talk) 21:47, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Delete Car comme le fait très bien remarquer Yann seuls trois fichiers sont acceptables suivant la jurisprudence Terreaux. En effet lorsqu'on prend une photographie panoramique du cimetière le monument apparaît en arrière plan et est donc un élément incontournable (unavoidable element). Jean-Pol GRANDMONT (talk) 19:07, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Terreaux principal is that the representation of a work located in a public place is not infringing when it is incidental (e.g. de minimis) to the subject treated (source: AIPPI Trilateral seminar, 2017 Warsaw). Taking pictures of the landscape and cemetery at Douaumont does not necessitate taking pictures of the building; it's easily avoidable as seen in other cemetery photos of this location in the commons and in those nominated it's clearly the subject. This is not at all similar to the Louvre Pyramid or the 72 small fountains decorating Place des Terreaux in Lyon where photographing them is unavoidable. The building is a central fixture in all noted photographs and it's copyright is not disputed. All images should be deleted until 2049.--Labattblueboy (talk) 21:45, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Il est impossible d'avoir une vue d'ensemble du cimetière sans avoir le monument en arrière-plan. Or si c'est pour prendre uniquement les tombes, la photographie peut avoir été prise dans n'importe quel cimetière et ne signifie plus grand chose. C'est d'ailleurs ce qu'avaient très bien compris les membres des jurys français et européens lorsqu'ils ont choisi et primé le fichier File:0 Verdun - Cimetière de Douaumont (1).jpg.

Jean-Pol GRANDMONT (talk) 18:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination, except 3, acceptable under the Terreaux jurisprudence. --Yann (talk) 04:42, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 5

As previously noted. Per COM:FOP#France: non-free architecture by Léon Azéma (d. 1978), Max Edrei (d. 1972) and Jacques Hardy (d. 1974). None of the nominated are de minimis or exceptions under Buren v Editions Cellard.

Labattblueboy (talk) 21:25, 24 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Sealle (talk) 21:06, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 6
English: Still not free, see previous discussions.
Français : Pas encore libre, voir les discussions précédentes.

VIGNERON (talk) 14:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Delete The Terreaux exception is only applicable if an image of the protected subject is unavoidable. The monument has been expressly included and thus this is not deminimus. All of the following should be deleted.-Labattblueboy (talk) 23:58, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Minoraxtalk 06:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 7

Beyond the images having copyright tag in the description text, FOP France. Non-free architecture by Léon Azéma (d. 1978), Max Edrei (d. 1972) and Jacques Hardy (d. 1974).

Labattblueboy (talk) 19:34, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. - FitIndia Talk ✉ 19:08, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Douaumont ossuary 8

[edit]

FOP France. Non-free architecture by Léon Azéma (d. 1978), Max Edrei (d. 1972) and Jacques Hardy (d. 1974).

Labattblueboy (talk) 23:02, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Minorax«¦talk¦» 16:34, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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