Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Cesenatico Skyscraper

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Files in Category:Cesenatico Skyscraper

The building was completed in 1958 by Eugenio Berardi (1921–1977). There is no freedom of panorama in Italy. The copyright length of the country is 70 years, and the image can be undeleted in 2048.

A1Cafel (talk) 03:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For my photo you can easily delete, I had uploaded it for the contest of the month "Skyscrapers". If there are these kinds of problems Wikimedia shouldn't be running contests on these issues. (⧼Anna Massini alias PROPOLI87⧽) (talk) 09:55, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @A1Cafel and thanks for your time spending on Commons.

Freedom of Panorama in Italy is really tricky and controversial.

Am I free to take pictures?

This is a difficult question to answer.

Today's Italian legislation distinguishes between photographs with a creative character, which can be protected as an object of copyright, and simple photographs...

Simple photographs representing images of people or aspects, objects, elements or facts of natural and social life.

The Cesenatico skyscraper is not unique or artistic. You will find a lot of similar italian skyscrapers on wikimedia and hundreds of those with the same characteristics.

I've never heard of copyright issues not even when some (famous) skyscrapers were advertised and shipped as postcards years ago... unless they were special or one of a kind, and this is not the case.

On the other hand, the Italian Cultural Heritage Code protects works that have artistic, historical, archeological and ethno-anthropological interest, irrespective of their ownership (public or private). However, these works cannot be “works of a living author or works whose creation does not date back to more than 50 years, if the works are objects and over 70 years if they are buildings” (Article 10 of the Cultural Heritage Code).

But I have to enlight that the Cultural Heritage Code thus leaves a large margin of appreciation to public authorities that have access to protected works without giving consistent indications and behavioural references. In practice, authorities have adopted different policies.

I still remember, in 2007, when the FOP issue was posed by an italian journalist named Luca Spinelli, from the fact that the Italian edition of the Wikipedia (and the related images on Commons), after noting the absence in Italy of legislation explicitly granting "freedom of panorama", intended to delete all photographs concerning architectural works designed in Italy by architects who had not been dead for at least 70 years, as well as all works of art exhibited in public, including city monuments.

It also resulted in a parliamentary question to the Minister for Cultural Heritage and Activities.

In February 2008, the Government replied stating that:

"Although not expressly regulated in our legal system, freedom of panorama, i.e. the right of anyone to photograph visible subjects, in particular monuments and works of contemporary architecture, is recognized in Italy for the well-known principle according to which behavior that is not prohibited by a rule must be considered lawful."

and the competent Ministry responded that “freedom of panorama […] is acknowledged in Italy for the well-known principle under which behaviour that is not forbidden by law must be considered lawful”;

Since there is no specific discipline, it must be considered lawful and therefore possible to freely photograph all visible works, unless, by modifying or altering the subject, one does not get to offend the decorum and values that it expresses.

Not even the recent amendment of the Code of Cultural Heritage and Landscape (with the decree law on Art bonus, 31 May 2014, n. 83) touches on the problem of the commercial destination of reproductions: art. 108, provides for both the exemption of reproductions requested by private individuals for personal use or for study purposes, or by public or private entities for enhancement purposes, provided that they are implemented on a non-profit-making basis; and the identification as free of activities, carried out on a non-profit basis, for purposes of study, research, free expression of thought or creative expression, promotion of knowledge of cultural heritage expressed (also) in the dissemination by any means of images of cultural heritage, legitimately acquired, so that they cannot be further reproduced for profit, even indirectly.

In summary, freedom of panorama in Italy is rather articulated, but it is clear that is "de facto" subject to special regulations in local copyright laws, issued with the aim of ensuring reasonable freedom to photograph in public places.

These policies generally allow you to take and publish photographs of buildings visible to the public and non-private scenes from public places.

Kind regards,

Terragio67 (talk) 16:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I realized that I had gone on too long and perhaps unnecessarily, I apologize.

I would just like to point out that in Italy, an intellectual work is protected by the Law on Copyright when it presents the characteristics of creativity and originality.

As already highlighted above, what is missing from the skyscraper of Cesenatico is originality.

This makes it a photographable subject in spite of the controversial FoP italian law. Terragio67 ( talk) 16:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete @Terragio67: notwithstanding works eligible for copyright protection as you stated (it was already briefly mentioned at COM:FOP Italy about works which are not creative enough for protection), the uncertainty of true status of FOP in Italy combined with Wikimedia Commons community's rejection of "dead architects exception" as suggested by Wikimedians from Italy (courtesy of a so-called pronouncement from the Italian parliament), means any loopholes on Italian law regarding public artistic and architectural works cannot be relied on. Until the Italian parliament finally allows commercial freedom of panorama for public architecture and sculptures (will they?), this building is off-limits here as of this moment, at least until 70 years after the death of the architect.

And to remove some misunderstanding, you are free to take photos, but you cannot publish or distribute them commercially. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 11:05, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JWilz12345

I agree partially with your point of view.

There are no doubts that objects in public places can still be exempt from copyright for a simple reason, the Cesenatico Skyscraper isn't creative or artistic enough to be copyright-protected, see [[#Threshold of originality|]] [42/2004 art. 11 c. 1e].

However, who is honestly ready to say that it is original or unique, when there are hundreds of similar ones on the italian Adriatic Sea?

Terragio67 ( talk) 01:06, 1 Jun 2023 (UTC) Terragio67 (talk) 01:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: per Terragio67. Ruthven (msg) 09:56, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Cesenatico Skyscraper

Files in Category:Cesenatico Skyscraper

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