Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Athens Olympic Stadium

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Athens Olympic Stadium 1

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w:Athens Olympic Sports Complex tells that the building was made in 1984 and changed in 2004. Unfortunately, you can't upload photos of Greek buildings unless the architect has been dead for at least 70 years. See COM:FOP#Greece. In some cases, the purpose of the images seems to be to show a team playing at the stadium. In those cases, I would argue that the building is de minimis as the main purpose is the game, so I didn't include those images in this request.

Stefan4 (talk) 13:42, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Object to deletion. Images are necessary for educational purposes and all are freely licensed. Freedom of Panorama policy is a mess and very inconsistently applied. Deletion would represent the destruction of valuable free content against which no copyright claim has been made. --Kafuffle (talk) 21:59, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Striking my oppose, as that discussion seems to be resolved. --Avenue (talk) 13:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ah, yes, sorry, I'm a bit behind with following pages on my watchlist, so I hadn't noticed that discussion. I agree that it is better to wait with deciding what to do with Greek FOP deletion requests until we have seen some clarification on those points. --Stefan4 (talk) 02:11, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Delete I will respect the requests above and not close this now. A couple of comments, though:
  • The comment above:
"Deletion would represent the destruction of valuable free content against which no copyright claim has been made."
is explicitly rejected by COM:PRP. It is unfortunate that we cannot keep images of every created work on Commons, but our first duty is to respect the copyright of those who create the works that we photograph.
  • My reading of the discussion of Greek FOP is clear -- while it may indeed intend "mass comunication" rather than "mass media", it still fails on the word "occasional" and on general commercial use. If I took one of the photographs in this list, printed it on a tee shirt, and sold tens of thousands of them, that would not be neither "occasional" nor "mass communication", no matter how you read the words in Greek. We have consistently rejected FOP rules that do not pass the tee shirt test and should do so in this case..     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:27, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think that it is clear now: Greek FOP is insufficient. However, it was much less clear earlier during this deletion discussion: it was stated at CT:FOP that the section COM:FOP#Greece partially was based on a mistranslation of Greek copyright law, and this needed to be sorted out first. This seems to have been sorted out by now. --Stefan4 (talk) 13:08, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I could make two arguments:
1) Why is a satellite image any different from an image taken from an airplane? There is still a copyright on the subject. FOP is an exception to the general law of copyright, so the Greek copyright is still in force.
2) It was taken from a NASA satellite, so US law should apply. Since the US has FOP for architecture, it is OK.
I think the former is the better of the arguments, but I'll ask Carl Lindberg to comment. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:21, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, en:Airspace tells that there is no fixed upper limit, so it is not clear if a satellite in the space is in Greece or not. --Stefan4 (talk) 14:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, the possible airspace limits mentioned there range from 30 km to 160 km, and this satellite orbits about 700 km above the Earth. So it seems to be a long way outside anyone's airspace. --Avenue (talk) 15:07, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I should have looked at the source link for this photo earlier. It says that Space Imaging, Inc. hold a copyright on this photo, as it was taken from their IKONOS satellite. So it too should be deleted. The debate over which country's FOP applies was fun, so I'm a little sad that it's now moot. --Avenue (talk) 14:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: I think we are all now agreed that this is ripe for closure. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Athens Olympic Stadium 2

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There is no FOP in Greece, the architecture on display is copyright.

LGA talkedits 08:35, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the last six one can argue that the architecture of display is de minimis, espescially in File:Greece v Malta, 17 Nov 2007 (06).jpg and File:OAKA ACDC.jpeg. Delete only the first. --C messier (talk) 19:26, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am no lawyer but my understanding is that the image may not be CC but it is allowed on the wikipedia since it is a something situated in "public space" and it is for distributed by means of mass communication. So is it more appropriate to change the license than delete it? Would it be technically better to upload it again under another license? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkoukoul (talk • contribs) 08:30, 18 August 2014‎ (UTC)[reply]
It is never necessary, or even allowed, to reload an image. Commons does not actually delete anything and the image will be restored if the community decides it is appropriate.
The Greek "mass communication" clause is not sufficient for Commons. Commons requirement that an image be free for all uses, including commercial use, goes well beyond "mass communication". .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 10:38, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that now, that the licensing I have provide for the picture is incorrect. But since I have the copyright of this image, am I not allowed to change the license? If I upload it as copyrighted but give it for use at least to wikipedia sites, which comply with the Greek law of "mass communication", would that be ok? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkoukoul (talk • contribs) 09:12, 22 August 2014‎ (UTC)[reply]
No. Both Commons and WP:EN require that images be free for all uses, including commercial use. That cannot be accomplished for images taken of copyrighted works in Greece without permission from the copyright holder, in this case, the architect. That is why Commons:Freedom_of_panorama#Greece is clearly marked with  Not OK. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:24, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Crowd scene (not populous) taken during a field event, framed by the stadium. It is more than just image of stadium  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
On close inspection of the full size image, I see that you are correct. You can see that something is going on on the field. However the framing and the inability to see what is actually happening, makes it clear that the principal subject is the stadium itself. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 10:50, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:OAKA ACDC.jpeg -- aside from the copyright issues -- is this useful? You could argue that the images of the rock band make it useful, but, unfortunately, that argument comes against the fact that those images also have a copyright, so you can't argue to keep the image because of the rock band because that says that the rock band is not de minimis..
    crowd scene showing evidence of the popularity of a band in concert and the effects used in a concert. What copyright issues, it is a crowd  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:24, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Original21AEK.jpg -- the image on the screen that is dead center here has a copyright.
    Again a crowd scene with obvious demonstration of the use of a flare. The image on screen does not stop taking of photograph, or prevent other components
  • File:PANATHINAIKOS FANS.JPG -- again, the image on the screen has a copyright
    so what, it is not the only thing in the photograph, there is a crowd there with flares. Copyright law does not prevent or stop someone taking a photograph of a crowd scene, there is a crowd display of flages
  • File:Paralympics Opening Ceremony.jpg -- nothing here but the stadium and a large tree. Since the tree is almost certainly not real -- how would you transport a real tree and keep it green? -- the tree has a copyright as a sculpture. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:19, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The ACDC image depicts a concert of the band. It can be cropped and still maintain its ues. Educational use: use of the stadium aside athletic events, the tour of the band in 2009, use of comfetti etc... --C messier (talk) 07:04, 17 August 2014 (UTC) - I uploaded a new cropped version, removing the stage and as much of the stadium as possible. --C messier (talk) 07:13, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Which makes the image useless imo so still delete. LGA talkedits 07:24, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Paralympics Opening Ceremony.jpg. There are people walking on the track, there is a crowd. This is a scene photograph in context of the opening ceremony. How else can you demonstrate the support, how else do demonstrate the context? Clearly more than FOP.  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:17, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • per C messier, delete the first, keep all the others. Some people need to get out and experience a sporting event and understand that there is preparation, and taking a photograph within a stadium of the event is going to capture the stadium. Copyright is not to prevent recording of history, and no court would declare those images in breach of copyright when the public is let in to participate, and record the event. Further, anyone who believes that Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons are not mass communication clearly needs to come into the 2000s. More views than any newspaper.  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:35, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That may be your view but it is not how the law sees it. In most countries architecture is protected and to take images of it requires either a Freedom of panorama exception or permission of the architect as you will see here there exist no Freedom of panorama in Greece. As for images on large screens, I am not aware of any country that permits reproduction of them that do not require consent. With a number of these images different strengths of fair use claims could be made to over come the copyright concerns, however such claims can not be made on commons. LGA talkedits 02:50, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Billinghurst's remark about mass communication misses an important point. WMF may indeed be the most important mass communication channel in the world, but Commons exists to serve all possible users of images, including many that are not by any stretch of the imagination "mass communication". .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 18:46, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closure

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Rationale:

  1. File:2014 Olympic Stadium Athens.JPG
  2. File:Greece v Malta, 17 Nov 2007 (06).jpg
  3. File:Inside the Athens Olympic Stadium-panoramic.jpg
  4. File:OAKA ACDC.jpeg
  5. File:Original21AEK.jpg
  6. File:PANATHINAIKOS FANS.JPG
  7. File:Paralympics Opening Ceremony.jpg


  1. No FOP in Greece,the stadium is the only subject in the photo  Not OK
  2. Cropped to remove architectural design elements, photo focuses on balloons. OK
  3. As the title suggests, the stadium is the main part of the photo  Not OK
  4. Cropped, now OK
  5. Screen shows the stadium from above, DW of (c) content  Not OK
  6. Cropped, now focus on the fan block OK
  7. Cropped, tree sculpture and most of the stadium parts removed. OK

Closed: The remaining visible parts of the stadium can be considered generic not protect by (c). --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 02:23, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Athens Olympic Stadium 3

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This stadium was originally designed by Weidleplan (architects H. Stalhout, Fr. Herre, and D.Andrikopoulos). The renovated parts including the roof were designed by still-living architect Santiago Calatrava. In most countries, all paintings, sculpture, architecture, text, and other creative works have copyrights which last for a certain period of time after the death of the creator (be it the last-surviving architect, engineer, designer, sculptor, engraver, or painter). An image of a work that is still under copyright is a derivative work, and infringes on the copyright so that we cannot usually keep the image on Commons. In some countries, there is a special exception to the copyright law which allows such images under certain circumstances. We call that exception Commons:Freedom of panorama (FoP). Sadly, Greece has no Commons-acceptable FoP. What is only allowed legally for images of copyrighted landmarks in Greece is the "incidental inclusion in mass media." Greek TOO might be strict too as the country is a member of the copyright-conscious European Union. Only way to counter no FOP is an amendment and/or reform in their copyright law to allow commercial photography and commercial publications of photos of copyrighted Greek architecture and sculptures, but as far as I know there's no indication of such reform in their copyright law as of this writing.

JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 11:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. - FitIndia Talk ✉ 06:23, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Athens Olympic Stadium 4

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The stadium is originally completed in 1982 and was renovated in 2004 by Santiago Calatrava (born in 1951). There is no freedom of panorama in Greece, permission from the architect is required.

A1Cafel (talk) 06:59, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Krd 05:31, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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