Commons:Deletion requests/File:Thomas Matthew Crooks.png

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Thomas Matthew Crooks.png

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 Delete The claim of no copyright is based on the idea that this is an image taken by an automated system. The photographic system used to take images for drivers licenses are not automatic like a security camera or traffic camera. The person taking the image through the system makes determinations about the nature of the image while undertaking the work to take the image. This is not the same thing as a security/traffic camera. Some original work is going into the making of this image, thereby likely making it subject to copyright. Pennsylvania maintains copyrights on their works, and there is no reason to believe that Pennsylvania has released this image under any license compatible with Commons. The indicated {{PD-automated}} license isn't applicable due to the aforementioned issues. Therefore, pending affirmative proof the image is in the public domain via some other mechanism than automated, this image must be considered a copyright violation. Hammersoft (talk) 18:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I addressed this the on Wikipedia talk page. Even if a civil servant has to click the shutter button, that doesn't constitute creative input under COM:TOO US and the Compendium especially if they're constrained by AAMVA standards on lightning, centering, depth of field and pose among other things. If there's no creative input in taking the photograph, then the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania cannot claim copyright on the picture. There are templates like {{PD-ID-France}} which are based on this principle. NAADAAN (talk) 18:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yet, using a similar system, we do regard booking photos as being copyrighted unless released via another mechanism. Again, without affirmative proof the image is in the public domain, we can't consider it so. We're just speculating. --Hammersoft (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hammersoft: , you wrote "The person taking the image through the system makes determinations about the nature of the image while undertaking the work to take the image." Can you give some examples, how the civil servant is doing that? And how it is the creativity of this person and not rules that are influencing the photo? - Robotje (talk) 18:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The way booking photographs are taken in the U.S. aren't standardized nationwide, DL/ID photographs are (lightning, centering, depth of field, pose, and more). NAADAAN (talk) 19:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That template pertains to French Copyright law, not American Copyright law, the latter of which exclusively applies here. Fluffy89502 ~ talk 19:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The U.S. has a human authorship requirement for copyright protection which states that only "fruits of intellectual labor" and "original intellectual conceptions" can be copyrighted. A similar clause exists in France which led to the creation of that template. A work requires "skill, experience, or artistic judgment" to be protected by copyright according to the U.S. Copyright Compendium. Since the same compendium states that copyright rewards originality rather than effort, and originality or artistic judgement cannot be reconciled with the strict national standards for DL/ID photos as set forth by the AAMVA; DL/ID photographs cannot be protected. This is the gist of my argument. NAADAAN (talk) 19:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete per precautionary principle. We can't just assume it's public domain without proof. Di (they-them) (talk) 18:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Dispute it for now. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 20:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete It would certainly be nice if drivers' license photos were public domain, and maybe this argument has legs, but I am inclined to suspect that at least for now this image falls under fair use. Maybe it is an appropriate illustration of the guy's Wikipedia article (?) but I do not think it should be on Commons. JPxG (talk) 20:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: speedied per nom. --Bedivere (talk) 20:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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