Commons:Deletion requests/File:ISS-32 American EVA b3 Aki Hoshide.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:ISS-32 American EVA b3 Aki Hoshide.jpg

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I find it doubtful that a picture taken by a Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency employee (Aki Hoshide) could have been solely created by NASA—or, in other words, taken as part of that person's duties within NASA. In my understanding, it is much more likely that the picture was taken as part of Aki Hoshide's duties for the JAEA and would therefore constitute JAEA's property and would be copyrighted by that agency. odder (talk) 23:57, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep When this should be true shoal of images would be deleted. Many pictures here were taken by Russian cosmonauts and European astronauts. Are these images unfree? Often NASA don't say who took the photo. Due to Com:PCP we may not upload images taken on the ISS, it could taken from non NASA personal. Till now it was common accord that all pictures from ISS are NASA material and free. --Ras67 (talk) 02:07, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete The nomination hits the nail on the head. russavia (talk) 10:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment No, it does not. I think we have a new form of Copyright paranoia. Why do you not initiate a mass deletion? A great amount of NASA pictures are not taken by NASA personnel. For instance this image was photographed by ESA astronaut Luca Parmitano and is free as work of the Image Science & Analysis Laboratory, of the NASA Johnson Space Center. Has NASA stolen ESA's copyright? What is with this file? We don't know, who programmed the camera. It could be alleged copyrighted by ESA, JAXA or Roscosmos. Due to Com:PCP we have to delete it? This screen capture is singularly interesting. The video was taken by a US (NASA) helmet cam, worn by a Russian cosmonaut. Belongs the alleged copyright to the cosmonaut or the video equipment owner or the person who push the button to activate the cam? --Ras67 (talk) 18:44, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep NASA explicitly indicates in the gallery guideline on that web site that "NASA material is not protected by copyright unless noted." It means that the image in the subject of this discussion does not have copyright protection because there is no note (see the description which does not have any note). Therefore, it is believed to be free of copyright owner. Unless NASA stole the image from the copyright owner and put it on their own photo gallery on that site which I don't think it happens here. Z22 (talk) 07:37, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete JAXA (Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency ; btw, it's not "JAEA") claims their copyright on this work at their website. [1] They allow press use and educational use, but forbid commercial use. whym (talk) 04:08, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They allow press use ... but forbid commercial use." - That's an interesting stand to take, considering the press is pretty commercial. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:19, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  CommentJAXA's copyright claim is erroneous. They took the photo from NASA's website (it is bit equal) and gave it the same licence like all other ones. Nobody on JAXA has an interest to clarify the real rights. What for, unfortunately nobody unless Wikipedia is interested in licences. In this special case Aki Hoshide took this photo as commissioned worker for NASA not for JAXA. All operations (also the photography timeslot) during this EVA were planned and supervised by NASA. Only Hoshide as JAXA member conditioned not a Japan copyright of all photos, which he shot. Should this assessment be incorrect, we would have a huge problem with many pictures from Space Shuttle and ISS flights with international participation. --Ras67 (talk) 17:12, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete per Whym. Even NASA makes mistakes and, to be honest, my personal impression is that they sometimes tend to be a bit sloppy when it comes to copyright (see e. g. the SOHO DR). I don't think it's a good idea to blindly follow their "unless noted" when there's significant evidence that a file is actually not from NASA. --El Grafo (talk) 10:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  CommentIt is clear that JAXA acknowledges in that description page that Hoshide worked on that mission as an astronaut in capacity of the United States as it said, "米国の船外活動" which mean the "spacewalk of the United State". They even indicate that the EVA mission was the US one by referencing to the code US EVA 19, not JAXA's EVA mission. Also noted that in this picture, JAXA reference to the ライブラリ (library) iss032e025258 which is the NASA's ISS Photo ID: ISS032-E-025258 where they took the image from. Z22 (talk) 04:51, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep Based on the comments of Ras67 and Z22, and my own readings, I'm reasonably certain that Jaxa is falsely claiming copyright on an image they have no rights to (i.e. copyfraud). As Hoshide was in the service of NASA at the time, and as first publication was on NASA's website, this is clearly a NASA-produced work (and as such public domain). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:20, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment As far as I understand it, the basic requirement for images like this to be in the PD is that the author must be an employee of the US government. But the mere participation at a NASA-mission doesn't automatically make him a NASA employee, does it? That's a group of scientists from different agencies up there and while they of course help each other out on their individual tasks, they are all being paid by their own agencies – and that's what matters here, imho. All in all, it appears to me that the copyright status of this work is not entirely clear, and unless we manage to get definite, official and non-conflicting statements from both agencies, we can never be sure – which unfortunately would mean we'd have to delete it per Com:PCP. --El Grafo (talk) 12:13, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Comment If you want to be strict about which entity provides the correct copyright claim between NASA's Human Space Flight Gallery (which claims public domain) and JAXA Digital Archive (which claims joint copyright status with license for media and educational use, etc.) you got to see which entity makes obvious erroneous claims. JAXA is in the wrong here. For example, is this taken by NASA photographer or JAXA photographer? If you based the copyright on employment, then would the photographer an employee of both JAXA and NASA? Well, you may say it is a joint mission. Then what about this? Would it consider the joint mission here? Why only NASA now? Also take a note of the sloppiness of JAXA to say that NASA claims copyright where it obviously cannot. Also JAXA restricts the use of educational only for a public domain image where it has no right to restrict. This is a sign that whoever manages the JAXA Digital Archive does not put any thought to the "copyright" and "applicable range". As for NASA's Human Space Flight Gallery, I don't see any incident in that gallery to be obviously wrong in the copyright declaration. Don't use SOHO as the examples because those might be from other NASA sites, but not from the Human Space Flight Gallery which has specific curator. Z22 (talk) 14:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment As per the policy of JAXA shown below, it is the definitive answer that this image is owned by NASA:
"Amongst images used on JAXA's web site, ones related to an astronaut's on-orbit activities and training at NASA, launches of the Space Shuttle and others related to the Space Shuttle or International Space Station are owned by NASA. Please use these images owned by NASA according to the following guidelines from NASA."
JAXA must have had an agreement with NASA on this. So I think this resolves any confusion regarding the ownership of this image. Z22 (talk) 20:48, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I think that's as clear as it gets. Good work and thanks for being persistent.  Keep now. --El Grafo (talk) 21:14, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Z22: Thank you for letting us know about this, it's welcome new information that they acknowledge that the NASA images simultaneously published on the JAXA web site are as free as those hosted by NASA. However, I'm still not sure about those images tagged as "Credit: NASA/JAXA", which include the nominated file. As "Conditions for material usage" on the JAXA web site state: "When the material is credited as a common copy-righted material between another organization and JAXA, please indicate both sources. (Ex.: (C) JAXA/NAOJ)" It seems to imply that those "NASA/JAXA" images are co-owned by NASA and JAXA. Their wording of "common copy-righted material" ("共有著作物" in their Japanese version, too) sounds a bit unclear, though. whym (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, my hesitation is a slight one, and not big enough for me to keep my "delete" vote anymore. I won't object to closing this as keep. (but not confident enough to cast a "keep")whym (talk) 14:02, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep It was found on the NASA website. No copyright information was given, therefore P.D. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 02:47, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: as above. Yann (talk) 18:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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