Commons:Deletion requests/File:Bourget à gauche sur bel ami de Maupassant (Rocca).jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Bourget à gauche sur bel ami de Maupassant (Rocca).jpg

[edit]

Reasons for deletion request -SuperRollex (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2018 (UTC) This picture has been stolen from the website "voilesetvoiliers.com" where it was first published in 2004 (please, have a look here : http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/cultures-voiles/un-document-unique-maupassant-a-bord-de-bel-ami-vers-1890/ ). No authorisation from the publisher, from the journalist or from the owner of the photo has been requested. This photo of Maupassant aboard his yacht is unique and the owner of the only one existing print refuses to let it published without permission.[reply]

  •  Comment

Unacceptable behaviour

  • I first asked to delete the picture because taken from voilesetvoiliers.com without permission.
  • The answer of Racconish is that this picture was in fact coming from www.laurentcharpentier.com
  • Racconish has decided to download a new file from this website without getting any permission, then he reframed it and put it on wikimedia.
  • Racconish justified this strange action telling the author of the photo is unknown, probably dead for a long time.
  • The fact is I am both the journalist having published this picture on voilesetvoiliers.com and the owner of laurentcharpentier.com and, also the owner of the famous original print showing Maupassant aboard Bel-Ami.
  • I have published this photo on my website well after it was shown on voilesetvoiliers.com
  • When I saw it was again put on Wikimedia this time in 1920 pix, and without my consent, I decide to put watermarks, too late, of course.
  • Question: on what legal ground Racconish can decide to steal this photo from my website and put it on Wikimedia ?
  • Question: as far as I can understand the way Wikimedia works, who gives the authority and rightfulness to Racconish to behave like a narrow minded cop without discussing before the point with the community ? And with me ?
    The legal ground is the image has fallen in the public domain. Comme expliqué ci-dessus, la propriété matérielle du support ne confère aucun droit d'autoriser ou d'interdire une reproduction, ces derniers étant n'appartenant qu'à l'auteur ou à ses ayants droits selon les conditiions définies par le Code de la propriété intellectuelle. — Racconish ☎ 08:25, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I ask again to delete this picture from Wikimedia Commons.

— SuperRollex ☎ 23:50, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

=== [[:File:Bourget à gauche sur bel ami de Maupassant (Rocca).jpg]] ===

Taken without permission from www.laurentcharpentier.com, see discussion. SuperRollex (talk) 08:08, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Comment The image description at laurentcharpentier.com has changed between April 30 and May 1, 2018. April 30 : "Guy de Maupassant (right), aboard Bel Ami II, with friends. Villefranche harbour. Photo : ©Pierre Borel (?) / Circa 1890 / coll. L.C.". May 1: "Guy de Maupassant (right), aboard Bel Ami II, with friends. Villefranche harbour. Photo : ©/ coll. L.C." One wonders why the reference to Pierre Borel has disappeared... In any case, it is very unlikely to claim, as Voiles et Voiliers does [2], that Borel himself was sitting in front of Maupassant in 1889-1890 on that boat, since he was not born yet [3]. This photograph has also been published by Alain Gérard in his book La Côte d'Azur de Maupassant [4]. As a side note, the name of the previous owner of the boat is Recca and not Rocca [5]. — Racconish ☎ 08:25, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Behind your anonymity you pretend to know better than the other. But your judgement is based on many mistakes and at least one wrongdoing made by you. And above all, you refuse to answer my previous questions.
  • As you may understand now, the only source of the picture both on www.voilestevoiliers.com and www.laurentcharpentier.com is me, Laurent Charpentier, as I am the owner of the original print.
  • Regarding the book by Alain Gerard La Côte d'Azur de Maupassant, : a private mail to me from the Publisher (Editions Pimientos) recognize that they took the picture from voilesetvoilers.com, without permission. You haven't obviously seen this book as it is mentioned : "Légende et illustration trouvés sur le site de Voiles et Voiliers."
  • From your arbitrary position of unlegitimate judge you have decided to download the picture from my website, reframe it and drop it on Wikimedia without willing to contact me first : why ?
  • Is It because, hidden behind your anonymity, you wanted to punish me for being demanding ? I'd be glad to know who you are and why you act like this.
  • Regarding the picture itself. It has been published in the book by Pierre Borel "Le Destin Tragique de Guy de Maupassant" , by "Les Editions de France" in 1927, then Gallimard republished it in 1987 in one Album La Pléaide about Maupassant. The author of the picture is, up to now, unknown and probably dead from a long time.
  • I am the owner of the only print known to be existing. I made a digital repro of it, in order to share this find with people interested with the subject. Not to give it to anybody. Of course I have not the copyright of this picture, neither you.
  • Instead of willing to discuss the point with me, asking me If I would be OK to GIVE a low res picture to Wikimedia, you are accusing me for changing the caption of the photo as published on my website : classic way to send back the guilt, when one doesn't have a strong case.
  • If I follow you way of thinking, any old photo can be given to anybody, published anywhere. For instance, if I find a photo made by your great-grand-father in a family album, can I publish it without asking you ? Is it the way Wikimedia Commons works ? If yes, Wikimedia would be the instrument of a dictatorial power. Is it the case ?

Thank you in advance for answering and deleting these pictures.

  • ONCE AGAIN, I ASK THIS PHOTOS TO BE DELETED FROM WIKIMEDIA

>— SuperRollex ☎ 13:231, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

It follows from what you write above the photo was published at latest in Léon Fontaine's 1927 book. Other prints seem to exist, such as the one auctionned by Ader in 2012 [6], from which we learn the woman seating next to Bourget was likely Marie Kann, but even if the print scanned here was the only surviving one, it would not give its owner any patrimonial right on the photograph. — Racconish ☎ 12:42, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment

I've never pretended I had the patrimonial rights on this photo. And the hypothetic fact that it could be another print somewhere (to be proved), does not change the point : You, Racconish, assumed the "right" to download this picture from my website without any permission. As somebody else has done from voilesetvoiliers.com.

  • From where comes your legitimacy to steal this photograph ?
  • It is interesting that you did not answer any of my previous questions. And the assumption about Marie Kann has nothing to do with the problem we are talking about.
  • At the end of it, what is your problem with this photo ? What do you want to do with it ?
  • As this picture has been stolen from me, I still ask Wikimedia Commons to delete it without delay. SuperRollex ☎ 16:48, 1 May 2018
You cannot say this image has been "stolen" when it has been published on various web sites and has fallen in the public domain. Once again, the owner of the print published by voilestevoiliers.com and www.laurentcharpentier.com, as well as voilestevoiliers.com and www.laurentcharpentier.com themselves do not own any patrimonial right on this image, provided it has fallen in the public domain. — Racconish ☎ 15:02, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@SuperRollex: 1. Deletions on Commons are decided according to copyright laws. 2. Owning a print doesn't mean owning the copyright. 3. The description says it was taken in 1890, and the author is anonymous. So it is in the public domain. It won't be deleted unless you show that the author was still alive after 1947. Regards, Yann (talk) 15:09, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment My point is not about copyright laws. It is about the fact that somebody took a picture from my website without permission and drop it on Wikimedia. May I understand, it is not a problem in this community ? As I received a warning for telling what I think with conviction & strength, I understand also that it is not acceptable to speak about such a subject. So, let's say one last time that I wish this picture to be deleted. Regards. SuperRollex (talk) 18:45, 1 May 2018
    • @SuperRollex: : As the picture was taken in 1890, it is not yours. That's the point about copyright which you do not understand. It is in the public domain, which means that the picture does not belong to anyone now. Regards, Yann (talk) 17:44, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Yann: : I do understand the problem copyright, of course. As I say since the beginning, my point is a question of principle : a website is not an open box of candies where everyone can help himself freely. When a member of this community (Racconish) has decided to download, from my own website, a picture, without asking me, is it a normal way to act ? What are the ethical rules of this community : being simply predatory or working clearly to gather proper informations & photos from reliable sources ? I am foolish enough to believe that good information needs strong work, competence and respect for the people. That is not the case here. This is the reason why I want this picture deleted. Regards. SuperRollex (talk) 22:00, 1 May 2018
      SuperRollex I have a suggestion for you : instead of pursuing your rants as here, why don't you add in the permission field a mention such as "scan courtesy of Laurent Charpentier" or anything similar to the effect of informing the end user it is up to him to add it or not, since it is not a CC-BY-SA license ? — Racconish ☎ 07:32, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Racconish: : I have also a suggestion for you : as you don't want to delete this picture, why don't you limit the highest resolution available to 640 x 450 pixels ? SuperRollex (talk) 19:32, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
See COM:FT: a higher definition is preferable. — Racconish ☎ 20:30, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • SuperRollex: Racconish can't delete the picture, as he is not an administrator. And there is no point to repeat ad infinitum your request. We got your point, but that's not how we take decisions here. Thanks, Yann (talk) 08:19, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep this XIXth Century image per the above "keep" arguments and let's continue to make it available to the general public. --E4024 (talk) 08:29, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: no valid reason for deletion. Nominator blocked for editwarring. --Yann (talk) 08:23, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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