Commons:Deletion requests/File:Azerbaijani khanates in the 18th-19th centuries.png

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Azerbaijani khanates in the 18th-19th centuries.png

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This is map of khanates Caucasian and Persian Azerbaican (In history Persian province). This is not Azerbaicani khanates, because Azerbaican was formed in 20 th. 109.252.73.48 01:44, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep First of all, in history the khanates were not a Persian province. Only some of them were in part vassals of Persia. Seondly, there are large number of reliable academic sources that use term "Azerbaijani khanates" for both Northern and Southern khanates. Even during the period of khanates most documents used the term "Azerbaijani khans", including the ruler of Guba khanate, Fathali Khan. But all this discussion about the name of the khanates is not about the image. It was made by Wikimedia user and licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0. --Interfase (talk) 04:32, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep The deletion request is (irani) nationalistic nonsense. The region is historicly known as Azerbaijan and also the khanates are called azerbaijani khanates. Source for this are given in the file description. --Don-kun (talk) 05:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
 Weak delete This file must be renamed. The designation "Azerbaijani khanates", in relation to all khanates, uses only one autor - Tadeusz Swietochowski (whose book is devoted to the history of Azerbaijan in the 20th century). For exemple authoritative Russian historian Anatoly Novoseltsev argued that it is wrong to call the Kuban Khanate "Azerbaijani". Most authors also argue that Khanates of Yerevan and Nakhichevan were located in Eastern Armenia, and not in "Azerbaijan" (etc. ...). More neutral names for this file are - "Khanate of the Caucasus and Iran" or "Persian khanates" (because all khanates were at least de-jure vassals of Persia). --Rs4815 (talk) 08:30, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: No valid reason for deletion. If you think that the file name should be renamed please discuss it in the file talk page. The nominator have a history of repeated vandalism regarding to Lezgian flag. -- Geagea (talk) 12:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Azerbaijani khanates in the 18th-19th centuries.png

[edit]

Названиена карте искажает историю. Азербайджан как страна возникла в 1918 году и соотвественно эти ханства ни как не могут быть «азербайджанскими». 109.252.72.220 02:09, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep. Прочитайте комментарии в предыдущей номинации. Тогда были приведены аргументы по поводу того, что термин "Азербайджанские ханства" (Azerbaijani khanates или Azeri khanates) широко используется рядом авторитетных авторов. Даже во время самих ханства их правителей называли "адербейджанскими ханами" в той или иной форме. Даже сам губинский Фатали хан писал Екатерине II (в конце 1782 г.), что весь Азербайджане недоволен поступками царя Ираклия и Ибрагим-хана (заключением в тюрьму гянджинского и ереванского ханов). Он, Фатали-хан, «за должность свою признал, чтобы честь и право адырбайджанских ханов защитить» (О. П. Маркова. Россия, Закавказье и международные отношения в XVIII веке. Наука. Москва, 1966. Стр. 176.). Так, что название никак историю не искажает. В 1918 году появилась Азербайджанская Демократическая Республика. Исторический же регион Азербайджан, как и Азербайджанские ханства были задолго до этого. --Interfase (talk) 05:00, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep The file is in use on many Wikipedias, from az:Azərbaycan xanlıqları to uk:Бакинське ханство. Commons should not delete files for being incorrectly named or otherwise inaccurate, so long as some other project finds them useful. See COM:NPOV and COM:INUSE. --bjh21 (talk) 19:13, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
«Даже во время самих ханства их правителей называли "адербейджанскими ханами"», далеко не всегда, далеко не всеми и далеко не всех ханств Закавказья.
«Исторический же регион Азербайджан», как находился к югу от Аракса, так и находится по сей день. --Rs4815 (talk) 20:46, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
«далеко не всегда...». Ключевое слово называли
«как находился к югу от Аракса». В годы ханств название Азербайджан в той или иной форме распространялось и на территории самих ханств. --Interfase (talk) 13:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Каких ханств? Кто называл? И где источники? --Rs4815 (talk) 11:54, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Weak delete My arguments remain the same. Read above. --Rs4815 (talk) 20:46, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep Per above. Azerbaijani nation existed well before the formal proclamation of independence in 1918. Brandmeister (talk) 17:48, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Azerbaijani nation began its existence only in 1918. Do not confuse nation and ethnicity. And by the way, that issue has nothing to do with this topic. --Rs4815 (talk) 11:57, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Нет авторитетного источника. 109.252.23.174 03:44, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Они в статьях Википедии. --85.132.2.106 19:26, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename the file instead of deleting it -- "Azerbaijani Khanates" is clearly not the correct/neutral nomenclature, as evidenced by the massive amount of Western scholars who specialize in the region's history;

Usage of "Persian khanates":

  • Ronald G. Suny. "They Can Live in the Desert but Nowhere Else": A History of the Armenian Genocide", (Princeton University Press, 2015), 70; "In 1828 the Russian army took the Persian khanate of Erevan (which nearly a century later would become the capital of independent Armenia) and established a new frontier on the Arax River".
  • Rouben Paul Adalian. "Historical Dictionary of Armenia", (Scarecrow Press, 2010), 471; "(...) in the town of Ashtarak in Eastern Armenia during the period of the Persian khanates."
  • David Marshall Lang. "The Last Years of the Georgian Monarchy, 1658-1832", (Columbia University Press, 1957), 153; "(...) and to obtain the Persian regent Kerim Khan's recognition of Georgian suzerainty over the Persian khanates north of (...)"
  • Alexander Bitis. "Russia and the Eastern Question: Army, Government and Society, 1815-1833", (Oxford University Press, 2006), 223; "(...) Persian khanates north of the Arax."
  • S. Frederick Starr. "The legacy of history in Russia and the new states of Eurasia", (M.E. Sharpe, 1994), 259; "(...) to welcome the Russian armies and the annexation of the Persian khanates north of the Araxes River between 1806 and 1828."
  • Britannica online, "Azerbaijan", History section (link); "Persian-ruled khanates in Shirvan (Şamaxı), Baku, Ganja (Gäncä), Karabakh, and Yerevan dominated this frontier of Ṣafavid Iran. (...) After a series of wars between the Russian Empire and Iran, the treaties of Golestān (Gulistan; 1813) and Turkmenchay (Torkmānchāy; 1828) established a new border between the empires. Russia acquired Baku, Shirvan, Ganja, Nakhichevan (Naxçıvan), and Yerevan.

Usage of "Iranian Khanates/Iranian province":

  • George A. Bournoutian. "The 1819 Russian Survey of the Khanate of Sheki: A Primary Source on the Demography and Economy of an Iranian Province Prior to Its Annexation by Russia", (Mazda Publishers, 2016).
  • George A. Bournoutian. "The 1820 Russian Survey of the Khanate of Shirvan: A Primary Source on the Demography and Economy of an Iranian Province prior to its Annexation by Russia", (Gibb Memorial Trust, 2016), pp. xvi-xvii, 6 (amongst many others);
    • "Following the conquest of the former Iranian khanates of Baku, Shirvan, Sheki, Karabagh and Talesh, the Russians combined them into (..)"
    • "In 1827, Tsar Nicholas I finally replaced Yermolov with General Ivan Paskevich, who roundly defeated the Iranians and forced them, in 1828, to sign the Treaty of Turkmenchay (Torkmanchay), by which the last two remaining Iranian khanates of Yerevan and Nakhichevan, as well as (...)."
    • "In 1840, tsarist policy, which favored a more uniform system for the region, consolidated all of South Caucasus into two provinces (...) were made part of the Georgian-Imeretian Province, while the rest of the former Iranian khanates formed the Caspian Province."
    • "In the 1930s, a number of Soviet historians, including the prominent Russian Orientalist, Ilya Petrushevskii, were instructed by the Kremlin to accept the totally unsubstantiated notion that the territory of the former Iranian khanates (except Yerevan, which had become Soviet Armenia) was part of an Azerbaijani nation."
  • Encyclopædia Iranica. AZERBAIJAN, (1987); "This new entity consisted of the former Iranian Khanates of Arrān, including Karabagh, Baku, Shirvan, Ganja, Talysh (Ṭāleš), Derbent (Darband), Kuba, and Nakhichevan (Naḵjavān), which had been annexed to Russia by the treaties of Golestān (1813) and Torkamānčāy (1828) under the rubric of Eastern Transcaucasia."
  • George A. Bournoutian. "The 1829-1832 Russian Surveys of the Khanate of Nakhichevan (Nakhjavan): A Primary Source on the Demography and Economy of an Iranian Province Prior to Its Annexation by Russia", (Mazda Publishers, 2016).
  • George A. Bournoutian. "Armenia and Imperial Decline: The Yerevan Province, 1900-1914", (Routledge, 2018), 6; "(...) After establishing Tiflis as its administrative and military headquarters in the region, Russia attacked the Iranian Khanate of Ganja (Ganjeh) and began the First Russo-Iranian War (1804-1813). (...) By 1813, the restraints of these other military engagements were removed, and following a number of defeats, Iran was forced to sign the Gulistan (Golestan) agreement. The treaty, which the Iranians considered to be only an armistice, handed the former Iranian khanates of Ganja, Derbent (Darband), Kuba (Qobbeh), Shirvan, Karabagh (Qarabagh), Sheki (Shakki) and parts of Talysh (Talesh) to Russia (...)"

Usage of "Khanates of the Caucasus":

  • Cronin, Stephanie, ed. (2013). Iranian-Russian Encounters: Empires and Revolutions Since 1800. Routledge. p. 53. ISBN 978-0415624336. "The shah's dominions, including the khanates of the Caucasus, included only about 5 to 6 million inhabitants against Russia's 500,000-strong army and estimated 40 million population."

- LouisAragon (talk) 16:18, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: no valid reason for deletion; discussions about renames should take place on the talk page.  — billinghurst sDrewth 14:04, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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