Commons:Deletion requests/File:Agamir Mamedov 2.jpg

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

NKVD Mug shots

NKVD, KGB, MVD, FSB, and etc. mug shots are not PD-RU-exempt. They are anonymous works for hire in the best case, and can be in PD if they are published before 1948 (date of creation is not enough). Alex Spade (talk) 15:10, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As I think these photos made by NKVD in 1937 are parts of the official cases and can be considered as "official documents of state government agencies". --Interfase (talk) 16:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The official doc is not doc released/made by state government agency, but doc which has legislative, administrative and judicial character. Docs from criminal files has not respective character - for more info you can read several respective discussion in archives of ru:ВП/Ф-АП. Or we need reliable sources indicated that criminal files has respective character. Alex Spade (talk) 17:17, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Disaggree. NKVD was a government agency and all documents from the cases of NKVD (made by NKVD, including mug shots) are official documents of this state government agency. Thus, they are PD-RU-exempt. --Interfase (talk) 18:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Disagreement is not argument. PD-RU-exempt is not analog to PD-USGov. Work created/published by state agency is not equal to state/official doc for copyright law. Copyright law indicates only two subclass of official docs: a) closed list of directly named acts ("laws, other legal texts, judicial decisions") - it is not our case obviously, b) open list of other acts, which (must) have legislative, administrative and judicial character though. So, it is necessary to provide reliable sources (not user assumption or opinion) - that these photoworks has respective character. Alex Spade (talk) 19:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - Actually we have reliable sources that these photos have judicial character. They are from investigative cases of these people that were published (with these photos) in various numbers of "Elm" ("Science") newspaper in 1990, which is the official paper of Academy of Science of Azerbaijan. As you can see it is not "user assumption or opinion". --Interfase (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      - This source indicates that photoworks are from NKVD criminal files - there is not doubt in that question from begging of discussion. This source do not specified that mug shot and criminal files has legislative, administrative and judicial character. Official newspapers are not official docs as themselves. Alex Spade (talk) 20:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        Official newspaper is reliable source that you want me to provide. I provided it and it specifies that these mug shots are from investigative cases of NKVD which means that they have judicial character. I think it is clear enough to see that the mug shots are PD-RU-exempt. --Interfase (talk) 21:14, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        You do not understand. It is not needed source(s) of these file, it is needed source(s) that indicates that criminal files are PD-RU-exempt. You think that they are PD, but thought is not enough. For several years Ru-Wiki community repeatedly tries to find source(s) that indicates that criminal files are PD-RU-exempt but there is no success. See archives of ru:Википедия:Форум/Архив/Авторское право with keywords "уголовное дело". Alex Spade (talk) 21:46, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        I don't think that we need source for such trivial case. --Interfase (talk) 07:45, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        Commons:Project scope/Precautionary principle - this is not trivial case - many other mug shots were already deleted, moved to local project under Exemption Doctrine Policy or kept only under PD-old-like templates (if date of publication makes it possible). Alex Spade (talk) 10:37, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. — Racconish ^💬 10:23, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Agamir Mamedov 2.jpg

NKVD Mug shots

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