Commons:Deletion requests/File:Лион. Спасибо,Мария.jpg
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Commons:Licensing#France photo by night Otourly (talk) 17:59, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Kept: architect died in 1888, this way of lighting is not eligible for copyright Jcb (talk) 10:41, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
- Renomination
Copyvio for light art. No Fop in France. Per Commons:Deletion requests/Fête des lumières. TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
Keep - this is not 'light art', this is ordinary electric light --> not eligible for copyright - Jcb (talk) 12:20, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- Comment FOP in France, and some other European countries is counter-intuitive. Same with light art. I hope further individuals who understand the issue can weigh in prior to closure. Geo Swan (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Comment I'm from this city (Lyon) and I know that this monument is not lit like that during the whole year. This is a "light art festival" that happens every year (early December). Lights are designed to be presented on monuments (not only this one) for a very short period and that light art changes every year. Also, those light arts are generally "in movement". Therefore, what you have on this picture is like a snapshot. It's exactly like taking an image from a motion picture. It's a part of an artistic show, therefore copyrighted. See that equivalent DR for which the file will probably be easier for you to understand. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 12:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- Aren't there a lot of similar cases in Category:Fête des lumières, despite Commons:Deletion requests/Fête des lumières? Does something distinguish them, or does the same apply to them? Rd232 (talk) 18:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Some years ago some of them have been deleted. Normally almost all pictures taken during the festival light are copyvios because they have been sponsored and made by artists. There's still no FOP in France Otourly (talk) 19:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- OK. I don't understand the category notice, which says The night-time light display is protected under copyright, except in a panoramic view. How does that fit with France having no FOP? Rd232 (talk) 19:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I suppose these light shows are outdoor shows, so that's why we speak about the absence of FoP. Was it your question ? Apart from that, I launched separate DR for several files because I think each one has to be discussed separately. Other files have been added after I launched the 4 DRs. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not quite what I meant. What I meant was, if France has no FOP, then surely these images need deleting for that reason, and the issue of light display is irrelevant (though it may well be an additional reason for deletion). The word "except" somehow makes it sound like two reasons for deletion cancel each other out! Rd232 (talk) 10:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- It IS relevant because the monument is PD. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 12:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- OK, the building being PD can overcome the "no FOP" issue, but it still doesn't make the phrasing of the category note any less confusing or contradictory. How about "The night-time light display is protected under copyright. In addition, France has no Freedom of Panorama, so that buildings will normally be copyright until 70 years after the death of the creator. (A de minimis exception exists if the building is an "accessory compared to the main represented or handled subject".)" Rd232 (talk) 15:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It would be better indeed. But the absence of FoP also concerns outdoor artwork, not only architecture. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 20:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well can you suggest something to cover that? Rd232 (talk) 22:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- In fact there's another problem in your suggestion. Not ALL night-time displays are under copyright. But in this case (the fête des Lumières), they are artistic light shows (still or in movement, it depends) and that's why it's copyrightable. I'd simply suggest : "The night-time light shows displayed during the "fête des Lumières" are generally protected under copyright. In addition, France has no Freedom of Panorama, so that buildings and artworks will normally be copyrighted until 70 years after the death of the creator. (A de minimis exception exists if the building or the artwork is an "accessory compared to the main represented or handled subject".)" --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 08:41, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's more complicated, some light works can be protected for years. The example of the Eiffel Tower is not alone. The light on the Category:Collégiale Notre-Dame de Dole or the one Place Saint-André (called Moonlight) could be good exemples. Otourly (talk) 09:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well I've added TwoWings' suggestion, as better than the previous version. Further improvements welcome. Perhaps a template would be appropriate for this? Rd232 (talk) 13:02, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- As Otourly said it, it's far more complicated than that if we consider other light displays so this only concerns the fête des Lumières. Therefore I suppose a template is useless. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 16:32, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well I've added TwoWings' suggestion, as better than the previous version. Further improvements welcome. Perhaps a template would be appropriate for this? Rd232 (talk) 13:02, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's more complicated, some light works can be protected for years. The example of the Eiffel Tower is not alone. The light on the Category:Collégiale Notre-Dame de Dole or the one Place Saint-André (called Moonlight) could be good exemples. Otourly (talk) 09:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- In fact there's another problem in your suggestion. Not ALL night-time displays are under copyright. But in this case (the fête des Lumières), they are artistic light shows (still or in movement, it depends) and that's why it's copyrightable. I'd simply suggest : "The night-time light shows displayed during the "fête des Lumières" are generally protected under copyright. In addition, France has no Freedom of Panorama, so that buildings and artworks will normally be copyrighted until 70 years after the death of the creator. (A de minimis exception exists if the building or the artwork is an "accessory compared to the main represented or handled subject".)" --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 08:41, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well can you suggest something to cover that? Rd232 (talk) 22:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- It would be better indeed. But the absence of FoP also concerns outdoor artwork, not only architecture. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 20:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- OK, the building being PD can overcome the "no FOP" issue, but it still doesn't make the phrasing of the category note any less confusing or contradictory. How about "The night-time light display is protected under copyright. In addition, France has no Freedom of Panorama, so that buildings will normally be copyright until 70 years after the death of the creator. (A de minimis exception exists if the building is an "accessory compared to the main represented or handled subject".)" Rd232 (talk) 15:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It IS relevant because the monument is PD. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 12:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not quite what I meant. What I meant was, if France has no FOP, then surely these images need deleting for that reason, and the issue of light display is irrelevant (though it may well be an additional reason for deletion). The word "except" somehow makes it sound like two reasons for deletion cancel each other out! Rd232 (talk) 10:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I suppose these light shows are outdoor shows, so that's why we speak about the absence of FoP. Was it your question ? Apart from that, I launched separate DR for several files because I think each one has to be discussed separately. Other files have been added after I launched the 4 DRs. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- OK. I don't understand the category notice, which says The night-time light display is protected under copyright, except in a panoramic view. How does that fit with France having no FOP? Rd232 (talk) 19:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Some years ago some of them have been deleted. Normally almost all pictures taken during the festival light are copyvios because they have been sponsored and made by artists. There's still no FOP in France Otourly (talk) 19:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Aren't there a lot of similar cases in Category:Fête des lumières, despite Commons:Deletion requests/Fête des lumières? Does something distinguish them, or does the same apply to them? Rd232 (talk) 18:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Delete - copyrighted lighting. --Simone 17:20, 9 November 2011 (UTC)- Comment issue is quite complex, we have to determine based on this picture if the lightning is original i.e. something different than usual lightning. I can't answer to that question for sure. My opinion is that it's not, all monuments are displayed like this at night. Regarding the Eiffel tower, I'd like to say copyright is not registrable in France, the SETE is making a fuss about their patents which are irrelevant for copyrights (it's industrial property and no photograph want to reproduce their complex lightning system). I really should edit the Eiffel tower thing in COM:FOP#France --PierreSelim (talk) 07:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- Just a part of the answer : this lighting is not permanent. It's only displayed during the "Fête des Lumières" in Lyon (around December 8) and it changes every year for this event (moreover the lighting is generally in motion, not still). During the rest of the year, there's indeed a normal white lighting on this monument. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 12:13, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- Then, you might be right. PierreSelim (talk) 13:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- Just a part of the answer : this lighting is not permanent. It's only displayed during the "Fête des Lumières" in Lyon (around December 8) and it changes every year for this event (moreover the lighting is generally in motion, not still). During the rest of the year, there's indeed a normal white lighting on this monument. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 12:13, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Deleted per TwoWings. --Rosenzweig τ 21:54, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
- Restored: No copyright on light. Yann (talk) 19:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
