Commons:Deletion requests/Category:People of Georgia (country) by occupation

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search
  • Add {{subst:delete-subst|REASON (mandatory)}} on the page
  • Notify the uploader with {{subst:idw|Category:People of Georgia (country) by occupation}}~~~~
  • On the log, add :
    {{Commons:Deletion requests/Category:People of Georgia (country) by occupation}}

Category:People of Georgia (country) by occupation

[edit]

 Comment Yuri Samoylov, active from april 2024, on 19 nov. 2024 placed a speedy deletion request to delete this category, with the rationale that "Category:People of Georgia by occupation should be moved here". Speedy deletion didn't occur in 7 days, and to me that's very correct, because there should be a discussion about any possible consensus about this rationale. Therefore I contested the speedy deletion and placed the request of user:Yuri Samoylov as a request for regular deletion. ThomasPusch (talk) 13:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Approve - To help site users and avoid mistakes, it should be changed. Overall, it was already approximately 40% Georgia (country) vs 60% Georgia, so I certainly was not the first to add (country) to categories.
<NEW TOPIC> My reason is, that Georgia is a souvereign country, a souvereign member state of UN, and the alternative unit Georgia in the US is just an administrative unit of the souvereign country United States - so any international user should know by instant, that "Category:People of Georgia" is about the country Georgia, not about the administrative subdivision of the US.
... Well, unfortunately this isn't what we are seeing and is inaccurate. I found multiple instances of the U.S. State of Georgia categorized under the country of Georgia and fixed them. Not everyone goes to the category when uploading photos or understands categorization. We can't assume this. There is a reason Georgia (state) vs. Georgia (country) is categorized like this on Wikipedia. It is confusing and needs to be clarified. It should have originally been categorized as Georgia (country) on Wikimedia Commons, but for some reason it wasn't, and it needs to be corrected even if it's a ton of work.
<NEW TOPIC> The SD of the present category only results from the fact that Spatms apparently was unaware of this whole situation and created duplicates of several categories. The neat way now would be to move the edit history of the older categories to the new titles; however, it really isn't worth any of this hustle
...This isn't true. As stated, I was aware that there were categories marked Georgia (country) vs Georgia. It is inaccurate to say I created duplicate categories, since all items in each category were moved to the better-defined category. Someone besides me, should have changed this a long time ago, but didn't. As mentioned, the categories under Georgia need to be fixed to help eliminate mistakes and add clarity to users.
<NEW TOPIC> Good news is that I've made the changes to the nation of Georgia for the categories that I cover. Please keep in mind, the non-standardized categories under the nation of Georgia were all done before I had any involvement with the country. Lastly, however you want to change the categories under the nation of Georgia is okay by me. Adding (country) helps users and is needed to avoid mistakes, but I won't oppose whatever standardization is adopted and I am completely fine with any final decision that involves standardizing the categories of the nation of Georgia.
<NEW TOPIC> This reply is not posted with any malice or ill will and I'm just responding to what was mentioned about me. I've said what I felt needed to be said and will no longer have an opinion about Georgia. Furthermore, I appreciate being on Wikimedia Commons to avoid the tyrannical approach that is used on the Wikipedia site. I find Wikimedia Commons to be a pleasant place that I enjoy adding content and organizing. Please take care everyone and I wish you well. Spatms (talk) 05:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Oppose I oppose his rationale: "Category:People of Georgia by occupation" should NOT be moved here, but should remain the main category for people of Georgia, as it is in use until now. My reason is, that Georgia is a souvereign country, a souvereign member state of UN, and the alternative unit Georgia in the US is just an administrative unit of the souvereign country United States - so any international user should know by instant, that "Category:People of Georgia" is about the country Georgia, not about the administrative subdivision of the US. I know, that one could discuss the umbrella categories "Category:Georgia" and "Category:Georgia (country)", but I'm just concerned at this moment about the existing category "Category:People of Georgia by occupation", which consists out of 94 smaller categories "... from/of Georgia", none of which being called "... from/of Georgia (country)" or "... from/of Georgia (member state of UN)", and the more there are categories People in Georgia by activity, People of Georgia by association, People of Georgia by occupation, People of Georgia by province, People of Georgia by religion and People of Georgia by status, and many more. I'm deeply sure this situation is the right one, and don't want hundreds of categories being deleted and being renamed to "... from/of Georgia (country)" or "... from/of Georgia (member state of UN)". OF COURSE, it would be a very sensible idea to empty the new category "People of Georgia (country) by occupation" and leave only the existing category "People of Georgia by occupation", but not due to the motivation and rationale of Yuri! ThomasPusch (talk) 13:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pff... Please see Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/03/Category:Georgia and also the notice at the top of Category:Georgia (country). The general policy of the category naming is already settled (without any active input from me; I was ambivalent on the issue), and the subsub...categories of Category:Georgia (country) are slowly being moved to the new titles. Slowly, because the contents should not be just mass-migrated to the new title, but should first be checked for files (and even subcats) that are erroneously placed in "... of Georgia" and should now be moved to "... of Georgia (U.S. state)" instead of "... of Georgia (country)". Most unfortunately, the original starters of this epopee haven't come around to doing this, and there's nobody bold enough to sort the things out...
The SD of the present category only results from the fact that Spatms apparently was unaware of this whole situation and created duplicates of several categories. The neat way now would be to move the edit history of the older categories to the new titles; however, it really isn't worth any of this hustle, and I will sleep well even if the older categories are just replaced by dab pages with {{Georgia Disambig}}.
And ThomasPusch, please never, never judge the validity of other users' actions by their apparent edit count and/or registration date. You are likely to oversee a lot, and it's definitely counterproductive to use it as a reasoning in deletion discussions. If you're interested, I've been editing commons since 2007, but that is totally unrelated to the present discussion.
-- Yuri Samoylov (talk) 15:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
P. S. There are also these cases:
-- Yuri Samoylov (talk) 15:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry about having written "active from april 2024"! I was just stressed how quickly the speedy deletion would take place, and thought that there should be a discussion spot on the topic. Therefore I just "pulled the brake" of the speedy deletion, and wasn't lucky to do so - so I was stressed. My aim was not to offend anyone (by the way, being called "a wikipedian who has edited for 8 months" is not an offence to me, more like a honour)... But I really didn't think twice about my typing, just quickly hitted the "save" button. So, sorry for having typed those 4 unnecessary words. But on the whole, I'm still not happy with the addition of "(country)" in hundreds of categories. ThomasPusch (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But apparently I didn't see the loooong discussion in Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/03/Category:Georgia beforehand. Thanks for the link. Still I'm not happy with the idea to change hundreds of categories, but as said that's a problem of using English as the language of nearly all categories in commons. In many of the languages I use more often than English the problem is really non-existing (Gruzija, Kartvelio, Georgien, Sakartvelo, Gruzeja, Georgië, Грузія, Gruzio, Sakartvelas...), but that doesn't help, as in English Georgia isn't Sakartvelo. ThomasPusch (talk) 16:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment And now the situation became even more complicated after Allforrous' actions. I don't know what were his intentions, but now the contents of Category:Entertainment in Georgia (country) and Category:Outside in Georgia (country) are mostly under the outdated titles, while the original edit history is totally hidden from view. (Also pinging Pi.1415926535 as the admin who performed the deletions following Allforrous's SDs.) If anybody is going to close this discussion, here's the whole list of problematic categories that I know of; ideally, in each case the oldest edit history should be moved to the title with "Georgia (country)", while the title without "(country)" should be left with {{Georgia Disambig}} (after the contents are carefully sorted out):

-- Yuri Samoylov (talk) 08:41, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Deletion_requests/Category:People_of_Georgia_(country)_by_occupation&oldid=965608748"