Commons:Deletion requests/2012120110006287

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2012120110006287

I'm raising this request for deletion in the course of a massive contributor copyright investigation on the English Wikipedia at en:Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Norden1990.

Ticket 2012120110006287 is used as evidence of permission for all of the above images. However, according to Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard#Confirm_2012120110006287, many of the images aren't mentioned in the ticket, and in any case the uploader's request for "CC-BY-SA" permission, and the copyright holder's granting of same, was for non-commercial use in articles only. That is, the uploader apparently misrepresented the terms of the licence, or invalidly attached additional conditions to it, when asking for permission. This may have been a simple misunderstanding on their part, but unfortunately I think we must still conclude that the images are non-free. —Psychonaut (talk) 15:10, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, the problematic wording of the permission in the OTRS ticket is "A képek kereskedelmi forgalomba nem kerülnek, pusztán a szócikkek illusztrációjául szolgál" (English: "The images shall not be exploited for commercial purposes, [but rather] solely for the purpose of illustrating the articles"). —Psychonaut (talk) 07:31, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BTW altough not mentioned before, the e-mail in the OTRS-system didn't come directly from the kormany.hu e-mail address, but it was forwarded by the uploader. User:Armbrust (Local talk - en.Wikipedia talk) 18:19, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Igen, biztos kamu levelet írtam a kormany.hu nevében. Ezt akartad mondani ezzel, ugye? --Norden1990 (talk) 18:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nem kizárt, hogy ez történt. User:Armbrust (Local talk - en.Wikipedia talk) 18:41, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bizonyíts, ne feltételezz. Még hogy nem személyes támadás... persze. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:41, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A COM:PCP alapján neked kell bizonyítanod, hogy ez nem történt. A legjobb megoldás az lenne, ha ismét küldenél nekik egy e-mailt (1) egyértelműen kiemelve, hogy a képek kereskedelmi felhasználása lehetséges és (2) és megkéred őket, hogy az engélyt a permissions-commons@wikimedia.org címre továbbítsák. User:Armbrust (Local talk - en.Wikipedia talk) 18:47, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nem kell bizonyítanom semmit, te vagy a vádló. Ráadásul ez a vád eddig nem is merült fel, csak most, hogy nem tetszett, amit írtam neked. Másrészt, mire visszaírnak a kormany.hu-tól, az OTRS elbírálja a kérvényt, addigra ezerszer törlik itt a képeket a Commons-ban, mert ahelyett, hogy kultúremberek módjára meg lehetett volna beszélni a felmerülő problémát, az esetleges lépéseket, máris törlésre jelölték. Persze én lettem a bűnbak, mintha én jogot sértettem volna, úgy van ez beállítva. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

COM:PCP says "The precautionary principle is that where there is significant doubt about the freedom of a particular file it should be deleted." Due to your en.Wikipedia block for copyright violations there is certainly a significant doubt. Also deleted files can be undeleted at COM:UD if an appropriate permission is received. User:Armbrust (Local talk - en.Wikipedia talk) 19:06, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Az angol wikit ne keverjük ide. A holnapi nap írok nekik e-mailt, és amint kapok visszajelzést (meg van az esélye, hogy már nem írnak vissza sajnos), akkor azt szeretném, hogy te bíráld majd el OTRS kezelőként, hogy ne érje szó a ház elejét. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Any update? Have the copyright holders sent a revised grant of permission to OTRS? —Psychonaut (talk) 07:41, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, clear provocation of Psychonaut, who deliberately misrepresents my sentences. I only emphasized that Wikipedia is a non-profit project. CC-BY-SA-2.5 is the authentic text here. --Norden1990 (talk) 17:56, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I provided the exact wording from the OTRS ticket as quoted by the OTRS volunteer, and linked to two prior discussions of how the noncommercial stipulation is problematic. (Further discussion is at User talk:Armbrust#Kormany.hu képek; translations available on request.) If you believe the grant of permission has been misrepresented or misunderstood then please feel free to post the full text here, anonymizing it where necessary, so that others can make an independent assessment. —Psychonaut (talk) 18:51, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, I know that you misrepresent the text... I have no OTRS access. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorry, I had assumed that since you were the one who submitted the ticket in the first place, you had retained a copy. Your proposal above to write back to the copyright holder is a very sensible one and should remove any doubt as to the use conditions for these images. But if it turns out that they have no objection to freely licensing the images (which necessary includes permitting both non-commercial and commercial use by third parties), please have them contact OTRS directly at permissions-commons@wikimedia.org. —Psychonaut (talk) 20:30, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - Psychonaut is right, the permission request gave the impression that these images won't be used for commercial purposes but we actually cannot guarantee that. While I am certain this was well-intentioned (the intent was to convey that Wikipedia is a noncommercial project), the permission request was misleading nevertheless. (One could say that it is their fault if they gave permission for a specified license without actually checking what that license means, but we should do better than that.) The permission should be re-requested. Also, it would be best to request permission for these images specifically, not just any image on the site. Getting a permission for any image on domain X, and then using that for images that have been put to that site years later, is borderline illegal. --Tgr (talk) 07:23, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete until OTRS are happy with the permissions. LGA _talk^edits 09:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
if the four red links were deleted for this reason (seems so), can they be temporarily restored? It's hard to request permission if we do not know what image we are talking about, and there seems to be no reason to handle this four differently than the rest. --Tgr (talk) 07:28, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- No, those four images were deleted because they weren't mentioned in the ticket at all; the uploader apparently copied and pasted a ticket which didn't apply. Regardless whether this was intentional or just an oversight, it was unambiguous copyright infringement. —Psychonaut (talk) 10:02, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Eh, I am confusing tickets. You are right. Still, if I am requesting permission anyway, I can send another request for those four. Could someone copy their source links here? --Tgr (talk) 16:04, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - http://www.kormany.hu/download/0/c7/d0000/Szijj%C3%A1rt%C3%B3.jpg (Szijjártó), http://www.kormany.hu/hu/miniszterelnokseg/miniszterelnoki-megbizottak-biztosok-es-kormanybiztos (Molnár Á.), http://www.kormany.hu/download/1/53/d0000/Klinghammer%20Istv%C3%A1n.jpg (Klinghammer), http://www.kormany.hu/download/2/18/11000/doncsev1_%C3%B6neletrajz.jpg (Doncsev) --Norden1990 (talk) 21:53, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Note to all -- WP is not non-commercial -- it explicitly talks about producing books and the mere solicitation of funds makes it commercial in some jurisdictions. . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 16:08, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/2012120110006287

2012120110006287

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