Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/01/Category:Merchants

This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Merchants

how to distinguish merchants from Category:Businesspeople?

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/merchant_1 "a person who buys and sells goods in large quantities, especially one who imports and exports goods"

many businesspeople do the same thing, buying and selling?

if the distinction cannot be drawn clearly, i suggest merging into businesspeople. RZuo (talk) 06:57, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Businessperson#History has some info about the etymology of these words. RZuo (talk) 07:36, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

The way I've always understood it is that merchants are more a class of trades people or crafters who sell the goods they create. Whereas a business person is say a business owner or someone who is generally involved in a business. Although there is some overlap there, but I think it's reflected in the fact that Category:Merchants contains sub-categories like Category:Wine merchants. I wouldn't really consider someone who creates bootleg wine in their basement as a part time hobby a business person. Even if they might sell at the local flea market or wherever. To be a business person you really have to own or run a legitimate, formal company and do it as a full time occupation. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:46, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

See also: Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/11/Category:Salespeople.

I think:

• merchants are people who buy and sell goods for their own account, independently. (S)He only buys and sell goods, does not create goods or services. (In French: marchand = vendeur/vendor; in Dutch: koopman: koop = buy, man = man.) I think in general a merchant works alone or has a few employees, perhaps a dozen. I think a wine merchant does not make wine himself, but selects and buys boxes with bottles of wine directly from several wineries and sells them to other businesses, like restaurant and shops.
• business people might own (or have founded or have shares in) a large company, which also might create goods and/or services themselves, not just buy and sell goods.

So Merchants might be a subcategory of Business people.

I would like to keep both, also because "merchant" is an old word, dating from the Middle Ages and the category can and does have images from that time. I suggest to give both categories good description showing the differences between these two categories. JopkeB (talk) 15:11, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Conclusions

1. Category:Merchants and Category:Businesspeople schould both stay.
2.  Action Category:Merchants should become a subcategory of Category:Businesspeople.
3.  Action Both categories should get the descriptions as described above.

@RZuo and Adamant1: Do you agree with these conclusions? --JopkeB (talk) 05:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

i agree with #1 and 2. we do need proper descriptions and definitions of the merchants cat, so that users dont categorise people arbitrarily.

i think the definition of businesspeople is rather straightforward and very broad -- any person doing any business.

as for merchants, i dont know what exactly. besides, there's the problem of the equivalent word in different languages. RZuo (talk) 05:30, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with point 1. To me a merchant is an individual seller of goods who might or not do it as part of a formal business. Whereas "businesspeople" are solely people who has founded, owns, or holds shares in a private-sector company. Like plenty of Category:Fur traders did so informally and not not as part of a business venture. Otherwise your just blurring the lines when it comes to the definition of a business and making it more about the general activity of doing something involving money and/or trade then an "organization undertaking commercial, industrial, or professional activity", which is the current definition for Category:Business. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:35, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

So the proposed descriptions should be adjusted. Now we have different opinions:

• business people:
  • any person doing any business (RZuo)
  • people who has founded, owns, or holds shares in a private-sector company (Adamant1 and EN-WP)
  • people who might not just buy and sell goods, but also produce them (JopkeB)
• a merchant
  • an individual seller of goods who might or not do it as part of a formal business (Adamant1)
  • someone who buys and sells goods for his/her own account, independently, and does not produce goods (JopkeB)
  • a person who trades in commodities produced by other people (EN-WP)

I propose to stay as close to the EN-WP as possible. Then we might get:

• business people: people who have founded, own, and/or hold shares in a private-sector company; that is: people who are involved in buying and selling goods, and might also produce them, in one way or another.
• a merchant: a person who trades in commodities produced by other people.

@RZuo and Adamant1: Can you agree with these descriptions? If not: what should be changed?

Yeah, I'm cool with that. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:14, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

business is not just goods. accountants', lawyers', physicians'... practices are all "businesses". they only provide service.

that does show that merchant, however, is someone who buy and sell something.

businesspeople dont only work in private sector either.--RZuo (talk) 20:23, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, businesspeople might not only buy and sell goods, but might also just provide services. That we should change.

A merchant not just trades in commodities, but also in other kind of goods. That we should change as well.

Can you give an example of businesspeople who do not work in the private sector? JopkeB (talk) 06:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Director-General of the BBC, List of presidents of Petrobras...

are they businesspeople? i think yes. are their businesses in the private sector? i think no. RZuo (talk) 09:53, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick reply. You might be right, so I have changed the description below. --JopkeB (talk) 14:54, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

So then we get:

• business people: people who have founded, own, and/or hold shares in a private-sector company; that is: people who are involved in buying and selling goods and might also produce them, in one way or another, and/or are providing services.
• a merchant: a person who trades in goods produced by other people.

"private-sector" might however still be removed from the first description. --JopkeB (talk) 06:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

---

This category discussion has been closed.
Consensus	Resolved by consensus
Actions	(1) Category:Merchants should become a subcategory of Category:Businesspeople. (2) Both categories should get descriptions.  Done
Participants	RZuo (talk · contribs) Adamant1 (talk · contribs)
Closed by	JopkeB (talk) 09:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC)