I can't see any reason to think Category:Steps is 'redundant'. Stairs and staircases normally include a large number of steps (I would think Category:Stairs should be a sub-category of Category:Steps). There are plenty of instances where a small number of steps (or a single step) exist which couldn't be described as a staircase or stairs. In British English there are 'door steps' (in front of a door) and 'stepping stones' (to cross a river) which could also be categrised here. Presumably Category:Steps (stair units) exists to include details or close ups of a small number of steps in a staircase? Whichever way you look at it, certainly not a redundant category. Sionk (talk) 20:26, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Themightyquill and Sionk: I see here some redundancy. If we have "stairs" for the whole staircases and stairways, then "steps" should be just for single steps and "steps (stair units)" is redundant. However, all the category names are ambiguous and seduce to misscategorization. That's why the included photos are a mix in all these root categories and some country-level subcategories don't correspond to their root category. There is a lot of categorization work to be done here. Maybe, "steps" should be merged to "steps (stair units)" which has more unambiguous name.
I have also problem to distinguish "outside" stairs from other "outdoor" stairs (missing category) and stairways - "staircases" are defined as indoor staircases at the top of the cateogory page, but what with outside and outdoor ramp/flight constructions? What is the distinction between flight of stairs and stair ramps? Don't we have the category "stair ramps" for two different meanings? Etc. Maybe, we should create some typology page as a guideline for categorization of stairs, and possibly revise and correct the current categorization tree. --ŠJů (talk) 03:08, 3 June 2020 (UTC) @Ipoellet: --ŠJů (talk) 03:16, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see any rationale for merging "Steps" to "Steps (stair units)" because, as I've already said, not all steps are part of a stair or staircase. I wouldn't miss the "Steps (stair units)" category if it was disipated into the "Steps" or "stairs" or "stair component" categories - there's not much content anyway.
The other variations of stairs and staircases I can understand. There are already explanations of the category tree at the top of the main categories. Sionk (talk) 21:10, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Sionk: and all : No, category:stairs should NOT be a sub-category of category:steps. In the current matter 1. — steps (objects) refers to 1.1. — single low objects or architectural elements, generally with a plane (flat) surface, allowing people to step on and raise themselves in a more elevated/advantageous position (expl. step stools) ; 1.2. — sets of few steps allowing the circulation from one degree to another (expl. altar steps, door steps...). They are generally low (only slightly raising) and deprived of landings and railings (balusters) but somtimes equipped with stair handrails. Note : These steps are distinct to stairs (stair flights). See → Category:Steps 2. — series of numerous steps form a stair flight (use risers for the vertical faces of a stair step, threads for the horizontal parts, winders for the threads of curved/bended/turned stairs (stairways) ; the lowest part of a stair flight is the bottom stair step, the highest riser supports the stair landing. Note : These steps are components of stairs (stair flights). See → Category:Steps (stair units).
@Themightyquill: and all : 3. → steps (movement) refers to the simple complete movement of raising one foot and putting it down in another spot as in walking (American Heritage Dictionnary of the english language), i.e. the action of making one step forwards, aside or backwards, or a dance step, all executed on a plane surface. Footsteps (designates also the length of a step movement) and stepping stones (requiring a step by step movement) are named after those. For footsteps in the mud see the adequat → Category:Footprints. Anyway, that is not the subject of the current question (about steps & stairs) but a new question (about step movements on plane surfaces) for a new thread if required. I add that I strongly oppose having another new step category for that purpose (not enough files available and more confusion among the steps).
@ŠJů: and all : 1° please see above for the redundance question, 2° Misscategorizations : I agree, there are lots (to many) of them, due to the lack of correct and clear category definitions. The fact is that the contributors of the multilingual commons happen to be photographers and not linguists nor translaters, nor architects. Those who simply do not know the correct english names or translate false friends choose consequently bad file names (then categorized by bots !). One way to remedy the situation would be to give on top of the category the appropriate translation along with the accurate (sourced) definition. 2° Other questions : regarding the missing Category:Outdoor stairs (redirected in 2016 to Category:Outside stairs by a japanese non-native english speaker) and the presumely erroneous definition on top of the Category:Stairways please open a new thread under the affected category. 3° For the distinction stairs#stair ramps see the degrees of increase on the image (right). 3° In case a sub-category of stairs-by-country does not correspond to it's category root, it should IMO be redirected to category:stairs by country or to the appropriate indoor/outdoor stairs by country category. --Bohème (talk) 03:18, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you suggesting that Category:Steps (objects) and Category:Steps (movement) shouhld be created? That might be a sensible progression. But I can't see how anyone could seriously prescribe to other people what the everyday word "Steps" means. At the end of the day, step ladders, stepping stones and stairs (multiple steps) are all step-related. Sionk (talk) 12:39, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, @Sionk: , thanks for your message. No, that's not what I suggested. See my statement above : I add that I strongly oppose having another new step category for that purpose (steps movement). The red colour was just a simple way to signalize the difference between Steps (stair units) and steps (movement) and my statement in response to @Themightyquill: that footsteps and stepping stones do definitely not belong to the stair unit category. Sorry if that was not clear. Commons has also categories step streets in NY City (beside ladder streets in Hong Kong and street stairs in Paris and elsewhere, the latter sub-cat of street furniture !?).
@Themightyquill, Sionk, ŠJů, and Bohème: What should we do with this category? Although there are multiple meanings of "steps", the most common meaning is the elevated portions of walkways, which are often parts of a staircase. Category:Steps (stair units) is a special case where steps are parts of a staircase. Other meanings can have separate categories with parentheses. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs • uploads) 18:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
