Category talk:Public bathrooms

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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Toilets

[edit]
See also: Commons:Categories for discussion/2020/08/Category:Bathroom signs.

The dual meaning of "toilet" (the room and the object) is confusing as a category. Can we split to Category:Washrooms or Category:Restrooms (for the rooms), and Category:Toilets for the objects. Then we could have Category:Toilets in public washrooms instead of Category:Toilets in public toilets (which sounds crazy). That doesn't follow wikipedia's en:Public toilets, but makes more sense as the name for a sub-category. Thanks. Themightyquill (talk) 16:37, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I imagine Category:Bathrooms could be made more specific~(as a subcategory of Category:Washrooms for rooms with baths, and Category:Public bathrooms could be redirected to Category:Public washrooms or Category:Public showers. - Themightyquill (talk) 16:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment, it's an international project, I fear your English suggestion makes it worse for a French word also used in Germany. I'd put "ToiToi", a company leasing movable rooms consisting of the object in a category:toilets (silly example, but certainly no "washroom" ;-) –Be..anyone (talk) 02:11, 10 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Thanks for your input, Be..anyone. While I accept your point, however, I'm not sure where that gets us. Firstly, toilette also means both an object and a room in both German and French. Second, surely there are plenty of other languages that don't use the world toilet - and that's why commons uses English for its categorization scheme. International descriptors in each category can help. - Themightyquill (talk) 08:20, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
+1 for international descriptors, and COM:REDCAT where applicable. Folks must find the correct category with a simple search, otherwise they make them up as they go. A remotely related CFD might be Traffic cops, fortunately hopping straight from jargon to Victorian English won't be necessary in that case. –Be..anyone (talk) 12:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pit latrines in Cameroon
    Pit latrines in Cameroon
  • Public toilets in Ghana
    Public toilets in Ghana
  • Toilet in a slum interior
    Toilet in a slum interior
  • Hand-made toilets in Indonesia
    Hand-made toilets in Indonesia
  • Squat toilet house in Sri Lanka
    Squat toilet house in Sri Lanka
Thanks for your thoughts, EChastain. You're surely right that these images illustrate the problem. I don't think there's a such problem with which category to put each of them in - I would categorize the first as Category:Latrines or Category:Outhouses, the second as Category:Portable toilets, the third as Category:Washrooms, the fourth maybe as Category:Privies (I'm not sure what I'm seeing in this photo), and the fifth as Category:Outhouses, so that's not the problem. The question is, do Category:Outhouses or Category:Portable toilets fit as a subcategory of Category:Washrooms? Not perfectly. So what category could house both Category:Washrooms and Category:Outhouses (and, theoretically, Category:Toilets (objects) as well) ? Category:Human waste ? - Themightyquill (talk) 12:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The fourth, "Hand-made toilets in Indonesia" are local constructions, devices built over a stream for use as a toilet. The third I wouldn't think of as a "Washroom". (In fact, couldn't a "Washroom" be a "Laundry room also?) I never hear the term used for a room that contains a toilet, personally. EChastain (talk) 16:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My problem is finding that these categories exist as options. Are all these options under "Toilets" or some other central place? (Problems come from options listed under a cat where I wouldn't look to begin with, like "Washrooms".) I'm new to thinking about all this, just trying to put some cats on images yesterday. I'll have to check out Category:Privies, as I don't know what those are. There is a cat for Category:Dry toilets, but what about the storage containers that aren't really toilets, like the first two for example?

  • Chamber for storage of dried feces
    Chamber for storage of dried feces
  • Container for dried feces is in "Dry toilets"
    Container for dried feces is in "Dry toilets"
  • this is already in "Dry toilets" but could be a "latrine" or "outhouse".
    this is already in "Dry toilets" but could be a "latrine" or "outhouse".
  • This was under ""Latrines in Ouagadougou" and "Urine", but it's a well for drawing water.
    This was under ""Latrines in Ouagadougou" and "Urine", but it's a well for drawing water.
  • Should go under "Toilet by type"?
    Should go under "Toilet by type"?
  • Pit latrine according to its description
    Pit latrine according to its description
  • This look like they're "portable toilets" but in practice they're not.
    This look like they're "portable toilets" but in practice they're not.

The problem with Category:Outhouses or Category:Portable toilets is their application to Africa. "Outhouses" is more of a western term, and would apply to most African "toilets" outside of cities and large towns, I think. The term "latrine" is more common there. And toilets that look like "Portable toilets" aren't moved around but are generally in a fixed place. And I haven't run into anything that would fit into Category:Washrooms yet. If a cat like Category:Portable toilets is nested under "Washrooms", I'd never look there to begin with, nor under "Bathrooms". EChastain (talk) 16:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure how to accommodate all rural dialects from English-speaking areas of Africa and elswhere. I agree that outhouses is more of a western term, but if it would apply to African "toilets" outside cities and large towns, then I don't see that as a huge problem. Latrine might be more common (which country in Africa are you speaking about, by the way? Surely it varies from place to place?) but latrine means an enormous number of different things in different countries. That said, if "latrine" essentially means "outhouse" in (for example) Zambia, maybe we could solve that issue by using Category:Latrines in Zambia as a subcategory of both Category:Outhouses by country *and* Category:Latrines by country?
I think Category:Portable toilets could apply even if something is never moved. (Many Mobile homes are rarely if ever moved, but they *can* be if necessary.) Maybe that category could also be placed in Category:Human waste as well.
I'm not sure what you mean you can't find anything that would fit into Category:Washrooms. Below are two examples from Category:Toilets. -- Themightyquill (talk) 12:40, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Toilet interior? That sounds like plumbing, no?
    Toilet interior? That sounds like plumbing, no?
  • Baños Parque Central
    Baños Parque Central
I agree that that its difficult to find categories for all these variations. On en:wiki Portable toilets "are simple portable enclosures containing a Chemical toilet (a toilet bowl filled with disinfectant instead of water) which are typically used as a temporary toilet for construction sites or large gatherings because of their durability and convenience." So I don't think pit latrines and other "toilets" that aren't moved, even if visually they look like they "could be moved", can be considered "portable toilets", unless there's evidence to the contrary.

On en:wiki, Washroom is redirected to Public toilet, Outhouse has a rather specific application, while Latrine, which is a translated French article and needs fix-up, is more general. There's no article on Privy, but the disambig page says it an "Outhouse". Bathroom is "a room for personal hygiene, generally containing a bathtub or a shower, and possibly also a bidet." And hot and cold water. I wish others that are not North American would weigh in. We want categories that are useful to others, so we want category names that others can follow. The top category, under which you're proposing subcategories, has to be called something that everyone understands the meaning of. On en:wiki, that seems to be "Toilet". There are many articles using toilet in the title. For example (I don't think I've found them all.)

Themightyquill - Looking around more, I'm beginning to think you"re about something like "Sanitation" should be the overall cat. EChastain (talk) 04:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

EChastain - I was under the impression that the structures in this picture fit that definition of portable toilets even if they are never moved, but if I understand correctly now, they have pits below them? So they are really not designed to be moved. They definitely don't fit under portable toilets in that case. Sorry for that confusion!
From what I see on English wikipedia they have en:Toilet (room) for all private (household/hotel room/etc) washrooms, and en:Public toilet for all washrooms for use by the general public, regardless of form. They have en:Latrine but it offers a pretty open definition, and a separate article for en:Pit latrine with a more specific meaning. en:Toilet refers to the object. Toilet (the object) and Toilet (room) are both in en:Category:Toilets, but Toilet (room) and Public toilet are both also in en:Category:Bathrooms which is only in Category:Bathing. In short, they have a lot more people working on this than we do, and their categorization scheme is still kind of weak. =)
I might suggest base commons categories of Category:Toilets (object) and Category:Toilets (room) but even then, I'm not sure all the images above could be described as "rooms". And we'd still be stuck with Category:Toilets in public toilets and Category:Toilets (objects) in toilets (rooms) which are both awkward.
Yes, Category:Sanitation and Category:Human waste seem like solid base categories, but it seems to be we need something in the middle. Maybe not? - Themightyquill (talk) 17:04, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Themightyquill, I agree with you. I'm trying to get feedback on en:wiki from the WikiProject Sanitation and was asked to join so I did. I was contacted by EvM-Susana who suggested this Flickr link as the way such images were classified there.[1] I have to take a closer look at that. EChastain (talk) 19:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Public bathroom, Paris

I just found this discussion while cleaning the Category:Urinals now placed under Category:Health care and splitted into 1.) Urinal containers (portable), 2.) Urinal plumbing fixtures, 3.) Urinals (public facilities) and 4.) the sustainable stuff (urine collection containers ...). May I suggest to place toilets also under Category:Health care and split the category into

  1. Portable toilets
    1. Bedpans
    2. portable public toilets
  2. toilets (plumbing fixtures)
  3. Public toilets (rooms, public facilities)

N.B. Public bathroom is not understandable for german or french speakers, nor is it, I guess, for english speakers (see: en:Public bathroom disambiguation). --Bohème (talk) 15:52, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Bohème: : I think your scheme above might work, but what about toilets (as in the room) that aren't public? Like a washroom in a private home or a hotel room? There are actually a fair number of these. - Themightyquill (talk) 20:45, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly, coming from England I would understand "Public bathroom" or "Public washroom" to mean the sort of indoor public baths that are common in Russia or Hungary (maybe even Turkish baths and other types of steam room), or the "slipper baths" that used to be common in public swimming pools in the United Kingdom built in Victorian times, and would not expect toilets to figure at all in that category. "Washroom" over here would tend to suggest a public laundry, and again would have no connection with toilets. Coming back to the original questions, do we even need a Category:Toilets in public toilets. Could the the images not be placed in both Category:Public toilets and Category:Toilets (objects)? To Bohème, I would point out that Category:Toilets is already a subcategory of Category:Sanitation which is a subcategory of Category:Health, which seems appropriate (toilets are related to health but not really to health care). Skinsmoke (talk) 15:08, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment: 'Toilets' are for ablutions, which can usually include personal body waste evacuation, cleansing, washing, showering, and areas with facilities that can be used for make-up and dressing. The Brit 'toilet', the almost universal euphemism for evacuation units, is woolly nonsense, as is the American restroom and bathroom; both are designed to be as 'tastefully' innocuous as possible. So Toilets could be those areas with above defined facilities. Where evacuation areas exist within toilets, then 'Lavatories' could be used, which itself can include 'Water closets', 'Urinals' and other types of units receiving body waste. External lavatories as sheds or portable 'toilet' units could be 'Latrines'. However, 'Toilets' is so generally misused but accepted by those with delicate dispositions that I think changes to properly specific and descriptive terms will be resisted, and Wikimedia changes immense. For those who believe that languages other than English should be taken into account, the prime language focus on Wikimedia is English. As there seems to be no consensus since January, is there a case for just removing the banner, accepting the inadequate fuzzy terminology. Acabashi (talk) 19:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, time to remove the discussion banner. When someone searches for 'toilet' they will be presented with the gallery page with alternative categories. Living in the UK, I expect to find images of lavatories and public toilets, with images of general bathrooms (with showers, baths, sinks etc.) or urinals under linked categories. --Fæ (talk) 09:25, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agreed with Themightyquill that it should be split.
My suggestion: Toilets for the device and Lavatories/Toilet rooms/Toilets (room) for the room.--Roy17 (talk) 17:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Adding my two cents here, in Canadian English "washroom" refers to any room with a toilet and is used much like the word "restroom" in American English. Chess (User talk:Chess) Please ping when replying. 02:04, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Chess--- In norwegian a washroom/vaskerom would be a separate room(/facility) in private household or public areas where you keep washing machine/laundromat, store cleaning chemicals/mops and have plumbing for the the bucket outlet/garden hose. Its funny how some words are used differently over the world. Anders (talk) 19:25, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There currently exist Category:Toilets (for the functional device), Category:Bathrooms (for rooms containing the device), and Category:Toilet buildings (for entire structures devoted to the role). There does not appear to be any clear consensus to change either this basic structure or adopt specific new names for any of these three categories, and discussion appears to have petered out. Thus, we can close this discussion at this point. If there is a more specific proposal to be made, it can be done as a new CfD. Josh (talk) 23:35, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Josh. Regards, Jeff5102 (talk) 07:26, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Bathrooms (Q8292645) refer to rooms for shower or bath, not just for pee and poo. Roy17 (talk) 21:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Roy17: Naturally. Do you think we need to adopt the real estate terms Category:Full bathrooms and Category:Half bathrooms to distinguish between those with or without bath/shower facilities? Josh (talk) 07:48, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Roy17@Joshbaumgartner: this specific dividing (per en:Bathroom#Terminology_in_the_United_States) should be discussed in a new CFD. At the moment, the goal is to close this 6-year long CFD Estopedist1 (talk) 20:30, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am fine with that, for sure. Josh (talk) 22:15, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is the whole problem. Depending on who you ask, "bathroom" can mean "room with toilet fixture" but can also mean "room with bath (with or without toilet fixture". The same problem with "washroom". Depending on who you ask, "toilet" can mean the plumbing fixture or the room containing the plumbing fixture. Even if we separate them (somehow), we also need to figure out what to use as the base category. - Themightyquill (talk) 23:13, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
fwiw, I'll offer a perspective from a different language. In Chinese, the device is 馬桶 (enwp is toilet), the facility for pee and poo is 廁所 (toilet (room)), and the facility for showering is 浴室 (bathroom).
In this analogy, maybe the device cat can be "toilets (device)", the facility can be "toilets (room)", the showering/bathing place can be "bathrooms".
https://www.lexico.com/synonyms/toilet gives many words. I think lavatory could be an option for the facility. Roy17 (talk) 15:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: It's been 7 years, still not seeing a consensus. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 14:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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