Category talk:Legal hijab in the Islamic Republic of Iran

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@User:Orijentolog Hi. legal hijab is a euphemism (look how it is used with quotes here). While compulsory or mandatory hijab are very common, I think we can also use hijab enforcement. This is not only about law. As a matter of fact, it was unlawfully enforced in Iran from 1979 to 1983. What is you opinion? HeminKurdistan (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@HeminKurdistan: IMHO it's the most descriptive and neutral as it can be, since it covers precise period and topic (hijab is indeed mentioned in law), including preceding events. Other idea which I got is Hijab-related controversies in the Islamic Republic of Iran (along with kashf-e hijab under Hijab-related controversies in Pahlavi Iran). Term "legal" is related to law, and by definition that is "a set of rules that are created and are enforceable by social or governmental institutions to regulate behavior."

Previous title Compulsory hijab in Iran is at first ambiguous considering hijab was per se compulsory in all Iranian historical periods, including ancient, except in Pahlavi Iran when Western dress code was imposed, first by decree ban and then social encouraging. Secondly, contrary to your suggestion, it can be considered as politicized Western-centric dysphemism for a clothing/dress code which is considered as normal/polite/standard in the view of a majority. As well as male trousers. But those negative connotations are subjective, considering Iran also has compulsory elementary schools and compulsory military service.

Regarding the 1979-1983 period, those were the days when hijab was "enforced" not by the government or police, but by society itself. That's what I got from books which I have. From your edits I'm well aware that your knowledge of modern Iran is pretty awesome, so don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong. :) --Orijentolog (talk) 19:47, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't get your point that hijab was compulsory before 1979, we host pictures of women from Qajar era without veil or such paintings from Safavid era. Not everything related to this subject is about controversy. As far as I know, Khomeini ordered the government to ban women without hijab from entering state buildings in 1980 and gradually this was enforced in other spaces. In 1981 women were prosecuted for not covering their hair and body in public, the law was enacted two years later (w:Hijab in Iran#Islamic Republic also mentions this). HeminKurdistan (talk) 22:06, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@HeminKurdistan: I don't rely on Wikipedias when editing, but on professional literature. Virtually all scholarly books (Moghissi:2005:66-67, Keddie:2008:12, Mitchell:2011:104-106, Mahdavi:2014:17-22, etc) agree hijab was standard in Safavid and Qajar period. If you're not able to reach these works, I'll gladly send you citations.

To summarize contents: in the early Safavid period, described "liberal" by authors, hijab implied veiling hair (something like rusari today), and in the latter Safavid period, as well as Qajar period, even masks over faces were common. Some authors suggest unveiling could be possible among early Safavids (Moghissi:2005:66, Mahdavi:2014:19-20), others dispute it and attribute it to tribal customs (Mitchell:2011:105). Unveiling (bareheaded) was found only among tribal, nomadic, rural areas, sometimes also among slaves, but never in urban public places. Furthermore, veiling was also standard earlier in Medieval era like Timurid period (Nashat:2003:127), also Abbasid period (Nashat:2003:39) when ruling dynasty took dress code from urban Iranians and even enforced it in urban Arab world. That's quite contrary to the myth that Arabs imposed hijab/veiling on Iranians. Reality was opposite. Mandatory veiling is also well attested for Sassanid and Achaemenid periods, ultimately deriving from Assyrian customs (Nashat:2003:21, Moghissi:2005:66).

Regarding your mentioning artworks like paintings, sources also mention it but with explicitly stating that was not a public place (Mahdavi:2014:20). As you know we also host collection of Erotic art of Iran, which of course don't mean such scenes were common in Safavid streets. One particularly bizarre phenomenon which I recently found on Wikipedias and around are miniatures of bareheaded Safavid/Qajar female musicians and dancers, or derived icons, supposedly "free Persian women". Ironically, in books you can find such singers and dancers were mainly slaves (Caucasian and foreign), since such professions were not quite respectable (Moghissi:2005:66). An epic fail.

And as for the early revolutionary period, the 1983 (or 1984?) law was government's response to frequent public clashes directed against the minority of no-hijabis (and even bad-hijabis) in public places. It was not out of the blue.

P.S. As I earlier told to Hanooz, do not consider this as POV because I'm not Iranian, let alone akhoondi. :) It's simply what scholars say. Many times I have encountered stories that "Iran was a feminist paradise for 2,500 years until Khomeini imposed foreign hijab" and that's simply ridiculous. --Orijentolog (talk) 17:41, 14 April 2023 (UTC)