Category talk:Armand Noyer, Paris

Name

@Cquoi, Rc1959, William Ellison, Albinfo, and Adamant1: I need help by this "A. Noyer, Paris". My source say the full name is "Armand Noyer". But I found also "Alfred Noyer", including Wikidata d:Q103821382. On this page stand: A.N. or A. Noyer stood for Armand Noyer, and not for Alfred Noyer, as many sources write. He was a well known French photographer in the early 20th Century. His company was located at the Boulevard de Strasbourg in Paris. - So I create this Category for the publisher. Maybe there exist other sources in France about this "A. Noyer". Please help me to verify the full name. Thanks! -- sk (talk) 18:49, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

So the little research I did there seems to be two different A. Noyer's from Paris around the same time that both created postcards. First, is this guy. The photographer of the nudes and other portraits. Then Alfred Noyer‎. Who, comparing them have a completely different style, subject matter, and their signatures at the bottom of the postcards are different also. As further evidence there is also this paragraph (from here) "We know of two addresses where Armand Noyer would have worked or lived (rue des Deux Gares 7509 and rue Ravignan in Montmartre), but I would like to point out that in 1909, Armant Noyer "editor" was installed at 37 boulevards de Strasbourg in the XXth arrondissement of Paris, his specialty was postcards with 'Bromure Glacé viré' and only reserved its sale exclusively to wholesale houses." If you compare the postcards of the two it does appear that the ones by Alfred Noyer‎ are more "mass media"ish. So would likely have been more appropriate for and sold to the mass-media market. That said, it's possible Alfred Noyer‎ is just a different publisher name Armand Noyer went under to publish his more "mainstream" (mass market) stuff, but either way, I'd still treat them differently when it comes to categories, Wikidata, Etc. Etc. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:09, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

BTW, there's also this person. He appears to be the one that did the Life of Jesus series. Which I assume is the postcards currently in the Alfred Noyer category. Although I think we need more confirmation, but going by the marks alone there seems to be three different French postcards publishers with very similar names that did work around the same time (I doubt all three are the same person. Especially the one in the last link and the person who did the portrait postcards in the Armand Noyer, Paris category. That said, a few of the Jesus series postcards do have the same signature as Armand Noyer, Parises. So...We know there were at least two (hopefully? I think). --Adamant1 (talk) 22:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Cquoi, Stefan Kühn, Albinfo, and Adamant1: , I did a quick searc for A. Noyer. The results are :

• Albert Noyer (1929-1930) éditeur de nus féminins : https://www.ader-paris.fr/en/lot/86481/8504580?
• A. Noyer : Couple amoureux (probably 1940's) : https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_sacat=10073&_nkw=carte+postale+a+noyer
• Photo de Sully Prud'homme (1809-1865) par Nadar, PUBLISHER A. Noyer (Paris) : https://cartoliste.ficedl.info/article3820.html
• Cartes d'Armand Noyer (Surtout ne dites rien :) : https://cartoliste.ficedl.info/article3820.html
• Alfred Noyer : https://cabinetcardgallery.com/category/photographer-noyer/
• Alfred Noyer, publisher : https://lapetitemelancolie.net/category/photographe/armand-noyer-edition/
• Armand Noyer : http://www.cpa-bastille91.com/cartes-postales/armand-noyer/
• Armand Noyer, photographe) : http://www.past-to-present.com/photographer.cfm?lastname=NOYER&fp=1
• A. Noyer ('pin-up", probably 1950's : https://www.delcampe.net/fr/collections/cartes-postales/pin-ups/cpa-deshabille-femme-erotisme-risque-pin-up-non-circule-noyer-4018-583954219.html
• See Noyer studio : http://www.metropostcard.com/publishersn.html
• A.N. = Alfred Noyer ?) : http://www.helmut-schmidt-online.de/Boudoir-Cards/fp-publishers.html
• A.N. (Paris) - PUBLISHER cinema stars : http://rosspostcards.com/An_Paris.html
• A.N. Studios, Paris (Alfred Noyer) :http://postcards.wikidot.com/publishers-initials

There might be 3 photographers (Albert, Alfred, Armand. None of the refernces are very certain and up to Wikipedia citation standards. The earliest A.N. published a photo by Nadar of Sully Prud'homme, who died in 1865. Other phots are by a publisher AN, who contined into the 1950's. This is probably a company name and not a real person. I suggest that there is a category : A.N. (Paris) and in the header there is an explanation of the situation. If the images are classed in sub-categories, by subject, this should distinguish the photographers and publishers without specifically identifying then. William Ellison (talk) 07:02, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the extra information. I mostly agree with that. Except I don't think they should be in the same category for cases where they clearly use different logos, but then that it's still possible it's the same publisher. So, maybe just ignore that at least for now until we have more/better information on who exactly is who if we ever do ;) --Adamant1 (talk) 12:06, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I assume that there is only one person: Armand Noyer. But people started to mix up his name. For example, this page [1] is entitled "Catégorie: Armand Noyer Edition", but the text talks about "Alfred Noyer". And on [2], they mention again "Alfred Noyer", but the postcard shows Armand Noyer's logo. Same case on [3]. Even the Library of Congress [4] has no reliabble source for its "Alfred". In my opinion, it's always the same person. --Albinfo (talk) 22:46, 5 April 2021 (UTC)