User talk:Slaunger/Archives/2010/10

Voice of Reason

Hi Slaunger... we really need a voice of reason... want the links? --Tomascastelazo (talk) 00:10, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Tomas. It is nice to hear from you after such a long time. I've noticed some of the noise you are referring to on my watchlist. I do not want to be recruited into this or any other drama though. The last time I involved myself in a drama on Commons, I was hurt, and it took several months of healing (my motivation never has been the same since). As I have stated several times before, I highly appreciate your photography and how you can often stir up the pot with some alternative and inspiring views of photography. The macho style of communication you excercise in disagreements are not very compatible with my Nordic temper though. Unfortunately, even when you have a good point, this drowns in aggressive communication, and that is a major turn-off for me personally. Give me cool reasoned argumentation based on facts and without personal attacks, and I would be much more inclined to get involved. Having said that, I appreciate that you recalled my user name and apparently asssociated that with a voice of reason. That was kind of you. --Slaunger (talk) 21:02, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Reviving the discussion about new Valued Image Set criteria

Hi there! I'm poking you as someone who was involved in working out new Valued Image Set criteria earlier this year. I'm trying to get them rolling again, so kindly take a look here, where I've restarted the discussion. The proposal for new rules has in the meanwhile been improved by incorporating a lot of input from people. I'm hoping we can agree on the text and start a voting! Thanks for your time :) --MichaelBueker (talk) 21:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Long time

Hi Kim, what a long time that I didn't hear anything from you. How are you? We recently went to Canada and saw Greenland from the aeroplane - wonderful mountains, ice, rivers... We liked eastern Canada very much, had a whale watching tour and saw the Niagara Falls. I'd be glad to hear from you. Greetings, --Schnobby (talk) 12:02, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ingeborg, what a pleasant surprise to see you leaving a note on my talk page. Seems like you have had an interesting trip. These days I have a visit from Canada at work, so a nice coincidence. The last six months have flushed by in a menacing haste being busy at work and with family activities, so I have unfortunately been almost completely away from Commons and photography in that time period (I have also been slightly addicted to http://projecteuler.net). Now, I see a period coming with perhaps a little more extra time, and I hope I will make some contributions from time to time here. Again, it was really nice of you to pop by. You should prepare a birthday cake and a song for me in a few weeks time. Today, it is my 14591th day in my life (for another 47 minutes, local Danish time). Best regards, --Slaunger (talk) 21:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kim, this is a hard nut to crack. If you don't consider the leap years, 365 x 40 = 14600, so in 9 days will be your birthday. If you consider the leap years, 364,25 x 40 = 14570 and the birthday had been already three weeks ago. Anyway, help me please, and of course you'll get something virtual for a present! Many greetings from a misty, grey, cold Munich! --Schnobby (talk) 15:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

You are close, but there is a slight miscalculation when you include the leap years, and I include the first and last dates when I count the days. It is in the future . --Slaunger (talk) 18:24, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, I know that in 2000 February had 29 days. But I don't understand your hint of the first and last dates; I must confess that I never was good in maths at school. Please give me a helping hand or just tell me the date, as I already "bought" your present and want to wrap it up. (My husband will be 70 this year in November, we say a round birthday like yours.) Best wishes, Ingeborg --Schnobby (talk) 09:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

You have almost got it!. A year without a leap day has 365 days, and if you add a leap day every fourth year the average number of days per year is a bit larger than 365 days,, which does not seem to fit with your 364,25 x 40 = 14570 calculation . Now, what I mean about the first and the last days is that, e.g., my 1st birthday was on my 366th day of living. And the final hint: Jeg fylder rund den samme måned som din mand! I'm excited about the present and can hardly wait another 10 hexadecimal days (11 hexadecimal minutes before I wrote this, it would have been 21 octal days). --Slaunger (talk) 22:17, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Hu! Hexadecimal days! I never heard of this. But I was busy with the task, even if I don't think I managed it. Your danish sentence was easy to translate - runder Geburtstag im gleichen Monat wie mein Mann -, that means November. Then I tried to calculate again, and now I have different dates, the 12th and the 19th. With hexadecimal greetings, --Schnobby (talk) 10:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I believe it is mostly nerds and programmers, who would use hexadecimal numbers for age-related matters, so I will not blame you for never having heard of it. Actually, the last time I really threw a birthday party was at age 36 as that was the first time (since I had an age of one) that my age was a square triangular number (and probably the last as the next square triangular number is 1225). Anyway, you got the Danish translation right, but not quite the day. I was born the same day as Marie Antoinette, but I am not nearly as good looking. --Slaunger (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kim, thank you for explaining this hexadecimal thing. When I read your mail, I immediately looked in Wikipedia for Marie Antoinette. The surprise is: You were born the same day as my husband! So we can throw a double birthday party, one in Munich, one in Denmark! I already made a poem for your birthday. Wait and see! Best regards, --Schnobby (talk) 08:25, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ingeborg. What a coincidence! I'll be looking forward to it then. Best wishes, --Slaunger (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Kim,

What happened to you? We are feeling a bit like orphans at VIC... And I lose my competitor to get to 1,000 VI first. Greetings, Alvesgaspar (talk) 20:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Alves. Nice to hear from you! Well, I doubt, I will ever beat you concerning the number of VIs. I guess my priorities have changed a little over last months, but I will try to be here once in a while. It is my strong feeling that the orphants have grown up and handles very well by themselves . It is also my impression that VIC is still a pleasant and interesting forum to participate in. --Slaunger (talk) 21:05, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

caribean cow ?

Hello Slaunger.
I remember very well our very friendly previous contact.
I don't absolutely know nothing about cows, cattle, and all these things. I found this for you, but it is in french. "INRA" means: "National Institute for Agronomic Research" and it is very serious and scientific, as an official institution. You may trust what they assume. Reading this, I think your cow is a good one "Bovin créole de Guadeloupe", and may be very nice for an illustration of an article about this animal. Maybe could you crop a bit the top of the pic ? Well, I continue to search some informations for you. Best wishes from Paris.--Jebulon (talk) 17:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Do you need help ? If you prefer, I may ask your questions in French, for you, to INRA.--Jebulon (talk) 08:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

• Bonjour Slaunger

Je vais donc écrire en français, puisque tu le souhaites. Si tu ne comprends pas, n'hésite pas à me demander de repasser à l'anglais. Je n'ai pas encore eu le temps de soumettre ta photo à l'INRA, mais je vais m'en charger bientôt. J'espère qu'une photo de vache couchée sera satisfaisante pour une identification formelle. Je te remercie de tes compliments pour mon anglais écrit, c'est vrai que si je me suis amélioré, c'est bien grâce à la pratique quotidienne sur "Commons" ! Je lis beaucoup et je regarde ce qu'écrivent les anglophones de naissance, et j'ai toujours un dictionnaire à portée de la main.
Mais je suis surtout content de mes améliorations comme photographe, grâce aux critiques. Certaines ne sont pas formulées très gentiment et sont parfois méprisantes dans le ton, mais ça ne vaut pas les drames comme ceux soulevés par ton interlocutrice (ici en dessous), habituée aux incidents dont je ne veux surtout pas me mêler. Mais je lis tout ce qui concerne cette (ces) histoire(s) parce que je trouve ça un peu amusant, c'est long comme une saga nordique et plein de rebondissements !!
Well, back to english, I was cruel enough.... I wrote to you above using many french idiotisms and maybe traps. Good luck ! Hope news from you soon!--Jebulon (talk) 10:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

OK. This is a tough one. First pass with no lookups and autotranslation. Several places where it is a wild guess. I guess this is a translation monster:

I'm going to write to you in French since you asked for it. If you do not understand it, I will be happy to do it all over in English. I have not yet written to INRA concerning your photo, but I will do that tomorrow. I think that a photo of the cow resting is sufficient for making a valid identification. I appreciate your compliment about my written English. It is correct that I have improved and that Commons have had an important role in the process. I like to write with English native speaking users, and I feel my vocabulary of words is increasing. I am especially fond of photography and of reviewing photographs. However, sometimes I find it hard to express myself with a sufficient level of nuances and graduation in the language, and I may sometimes misunderstand what is being written, and this sometimes leads to drama, which I would rather want to avoid and which afflict me personally. But I also like these conflicts and see them as somewhat amusing, and they remind me a little bit of a Nordic saga with all the revenge and anger.

Phew, OK, now I will try to get some autotranslating help and find some of the traps you have laid out. --Slaunger (talk) 15:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

OK. Take two, after some autotranslation hints:

I'm going to write to you in French since you asked for it. If you do not understand it, I will be happy to switch over to English again. I have not yet submitted your photo to INRA concerning your photo. I will upload it tomorrow. I hope that a photo of the cow resting is sufficient for making a valid identification. I appreciate your compliment about my written English. If I have improved, it is surely due daily påractise on Commons ! I read a lot here what is written by English native speaking users, and I always have a dictionary at hand. But I am especially happy that my photography has improved so much. That is especially due to the reviews. However, sometimes, the reviews are sometimes contemptuous in tone, and cause drama, which the post below is a good example of. But I read everything about the(se) story(ies), and I find somewhat amusing — they remind me a little bit of a Nordic saga: They are long and filled with surprises!

Better? --Slaunger (talk) 15:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Very funny. The second one is much better, indeed. But the first was not so bad ! Only an important mistake in the two versions, concerning the cow : "Bientôt" means "soon", and not "tomorrow" ("demain"). In this special case, it means "maybe tonight" (I hope !!).

Ooops that was embarassing that I did not even recall the difference between Bientôt and demain from my evening course. But all in all, not so bad after all, I guess.

Have a nice evening !--Jebulon (talk) 16:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

You too! --Slaunger (talk) 19:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

breaking news : e-mail with photo to INRA-Guadeloupe  Done --Jebulon (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Trés bien ! Merci ! --Slaunger (talk) 19:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Slaunger.

I've got an answer from the INRA specialist of Creole race in Fort-de-France (Guadeloupe).
He says: Bonjour Il est difficile de juger sur la photo, l'animal étant couché, et les seules parties réellement visibles étant le dos et la tête. Il aurait fallu pouvoir avoir une photo sur pied, de la totalité de l'animal (pour voir notamment l'abdomen, les pattes et onglons, et la morphologie d'ensemble de l'animal).

A première vue, l'animal présente quelques caractéristiques de la vache Créole (muqueuses sombres, cornage en coupe, profil de tête droit, oreilles petites et horizontales).

Cependant il lui manque un élément caractéristique qui est la bosse de type zébu, très marquée chez le bovin Créole (quoique moins prononcée chez les jeunes femelles), mais qui est totalement absente chez cet animal.

De plus le fanon apparait très peu développé et la robe uniformément brune (même s'il est difficile d'en juger vu la position de l'animal).

Ces dernières observations me font donc penser qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un animal de race Créole, mais plutot un croisé, éventuellement avec du Limousin.

Vous trouverez des illustrations sur notre site : http://www.antilles.inra.fr/antilles/les_recherches/unite_de_recherche_en_productions_animales/adaptation_aux_contraintes_d_elevage/caracterisation_des_populations_locales

Bien Cordialement Michel NAVES

As he is a specialist, he uses technical words I cannot translate in english (fanons, onglons ...) . He says that he cannot be sure, because of the cow is laying down. Some elements make think that it is a Creole, but some other make think the opposite (it fails a hump in the back, and other characteristics). At the end, he says that it may probably be a crossing between "creole" and "limousine". He provides a link with photos.
IMO, you cannot assume now that it is a "creole race cow", sorry.
I am happy if this contact helped you, it was very interesting for me too. N'hésite pas à me demander à nouveau si tu en as besoin ! Bien amicalement à toi depuis Paris --Jebulon (talk) 09:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Very interesting. I actually had the thought myself that it did not quite look like a Creole, and that it could have some Limousine in it. Hmmm, I actually think I can get in contact with the owner using some contacts to hear if that is correct. I find such detective work fun. And, no I will not hesitate to ask you for asitance again, if the need arises. Best wishes from a rainy and cold Denmark (brrrr). --Slaunger (talk) 10:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi

Hi slaunger, you wrote on AN/U that you are "dissapointed with especially Mila...". I am here not to question this statement about me.

May I please ask you, if you maybe just a little bit disappointed with alvesgaspar too?

Are you disappointed by any one of those, for example?

[1]

[2]

How about claiming this: "Also, one of the new user's accounts supporting the nomination was clearly created with that specific purpose" meaning an account "was clearly created" to support this this nomination. IMO it is an accusation I used a sock, and BTW evaded my block in the process.It was made just a few hours ago. Are you disappointed with this one?

And what about closing my nomination that was going to be closed the next day anyway?

And what say you about this comment on the nomination supported by 16 editors?

I provided only very few examples, there are many more of the same.

Anyway... I would still like to thank you for challenging alves about me "insulting family members". After all you were the only one to do it, but you said why to bring things from the past. The thing is I have never insulted Estrilda neither in the past, nor now , and I do not even have a problem with her kicking back on me. She's done it for her man. Does not matter, if she was right or wrong. I could understand her. Regards.--Mbz1 (talk) 02:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Mila,

I see some overreactings here and there as I have seen from your side as well. Some comments out of line, but also a cooling down and acknowledgement of overstepping. On your side talk page you call Alvesgaspars reviews dishonest. I do think Alvesgaspar honestly expressed that cloning was done very clumsy. He made that comment in a snarky, unhelpful (and dissapoiting way), but it was honest, I think. It is poisoning for the atmosphere to interprete such a review comment as "dishonest" on your user page. In my book that is equivalent to calling a person a liar. I also note that this comment was made after Lycaon made a good faith review "Very obvious cloning on the first wave front. Please fix." A clear indication that the issue was fixable and not a permanent oppose. But you immediately perceived it as a bad faith review (it seems entirely justified for me), and began to bring up the past.

It appears to me that Alvesgaspar is at least trying to get back to a normalized user intercation situation. How about you? --Slaunger (talk) 05:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I do not believe alvesgaspar is "trying to get back to a normalized user intercation situation". I see just the opposite. For example I asked him a question here, and it got ignored.

So, you believe it was just an overreaction to call me "liar" by your books here and here with no reasons whatsoever?

About me calling some of his reviews and other actions on my nominations dishonest... Well, let me put it this way: Even with trying really, really hard to assume a good faith I am 100% sure that those were done to retaliate me for my comments about lycaon and himself. I agree my comments were uncivil. I could understand his feelings. After all he stopped at nothing in helping lycaon getting out of the situation (Estrilda affair) including, but not limiting edit warring. I would not have minded, if alvesgaspar brought me to AN/U for my comments about lycaon, but to close a nomination that was about to be closed the next day... well, it smells really bad, and Walt [(and looks like Walt seem to agree with me at least partially, and I personally consider that statement by alvesgaspar yet another personal attack that went unpunished. I am more than disappointed by your oppose vote on my interaction ban with alvesgaspar.

I got blocked for me calling alvesgaspar's reviews dishonest. He got not even warned for doing the same things to me. And now he argues that my 6 months block should be reinstated.

I could have agreed that lycaon review on that particular nomination was "a good faith review" except two points:

• • if I found a stitching error in otherwise good image, I would have used a comment versus opposing, and later, when the error was fixed, I would have changed my comment to support. He never has. Just the opposite: he posted that (not sure how to name it), and even after I explained what happened he has never bothered to strike out his ... And please see here his reaction.

• • he was told by Lar to stop voting on my nominations altogether, he should have complied without escalating this the way it is now. He is involved with me, and I am involved with him. He ignores all my questions, he even deleted my message that I posted to inform him about FP promotion of his image nominated by somebody else (it was when he was taken a break after Estrilda affair). Also see here, and tell me, if I was trying "to get back to a normalized user intercation situation" and what I got in response.

No, I do not believe anything lycaon does on my nominations is done out of a good faith.

You asked me, if I were trying "to get back to a normalized user intercation situation". Besides the example I mentioned above I believe you missed my statement on AN/U (no wonder there's so much written about me and by me ) So, if you do not mind I will repeat it here one more time. My 6 months block was lifted on October 19. By that time lycaon opposed all 3 of the nominations of my FP images, and one nomination of my QI image. I did not respond to any of those, and actually was thinking about taking a rather long break, but when 2 days later on October 21 alvesgaspar claimed that some supports on my nominatins smell "fishy", I felt as responding. So it is up to you to decide, if I were trying "to get back to a normalized user intercation situation" , and who did not.

In meantime alvesgaspar still continues to defend his comment on my nomination as well as closing nomination the day before it was about to be closed Here is example from today. Those kind of comments look really bad, especially, when coming from the user, who defends lycaon using a sock account to make double opposes of my nominations.

I do appreciate some of your other comments and links. --Mbz1 (talk) 03:20, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Mila, a permanent intercation ban is a quite dramatic thing, and something which should only be used if all possibilities for getting along again have been exhausted. I do believe that is the case concerning you/Pieter and you/Lycaon. Concerning Alves, I do not see the possibilities as being exhausted. I seen the outburst more of temporary incivilities based on some personal values being overstepped mutually in a specific conflict. Not something to be particularly proud of. Now, Alves has striked out the family thing on COM:AN/U and has since then not had any agressive posts regarding this matter. He has also sinceadressed in a factual and clear manner some of the thoughts he had about the controversy of which users are involved in your nomination and their relation to you including a partial apology. I believe that relates to the question you had to him. IMO this is an indication of a transition to normal from his side and a stretched out hand. Yet you continue to reiterate the matters without grasping the opportunity to return to normal. Now, that dissapoints me.

Now, I am disspointed twice and you are "more than dissapointed" once. An almost balance of mutual dissapointments . The Nordic saga mentioned by Jebulon above gets longer and longer....--Slaunger (talk) 06:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Slaunger, you addressed only one point I made, but I am not sure how "partial apology" to AFBorchert at AFBorchert talk page is connected to me while my question on Alvesgaspar's talk page is ignored. And what about closing my image's nomination? It is not the first time it happened the same thing was done here right after conflict on the other nomination has started and just 3 days before this one was about to be closed on its own. I could provide more examples of the same. I am sure that some (of course not all) alvesgaspar's reviews of my images and all closing of my nominations was done to retaliate to me for my, yes, uncivil comments toward lycaon. IMO FP nominations should never be used like that. There's AN/U to address incivility.--Mbz1 (talk) 10:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Again reiterating instead of stretching out (sigh). Now you have dissapointed me three times. I am on the other hand very sure they were not all done to retaliate for your uncivil comments regarding Lycaon. Two opinions, no absolute truth, the world is as you perceive it. --Slaunger (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I guess we should live with being disappointed by each other --Mbz1 (talk) 14:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I was actually pleased by that comment. Oh wait, it just annihilated with one of my previous dissappointments in a big bright light - must have been an anti-dissapointment . I can certainbly live with that. --Slaunger (talk) 19:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

FPC RC Car

The image has been updated here due to the reccomendations you made. Please take the time to reconsider your oppose. Thanks. JFitch (talk) 03:36, 31 October 2010 (UTC)