User talk:JustinTime55

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, JustinTime55!

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Afterwords regarding that NPOVN discussion on first human spaceflight.

@JustinTime55: Hey. I had tried to put my afterwords on your talk page and that of Wikiproject Spaceflight, however because the discussion back at English Wikipedia's NPOVN has attracted meta-level attention it has now been swiftly reverted by roving overzealous "power-trippers" and mistook it as "re-litigation" or "disruption". You were right in your hunch to avoid these meta level Wikidramas at all costs.

Regarding the NPOVN discussion surrounding the definitional issue, that has since been closed for now.

This unduly long and repetitious discussion should end, and a formal closure has been requested. There is a clear consensus that Yuri Gagarin made the first human spaceflight and that our articles should reflect that fact. The assertion that Gagarin's flight might not contemporaneously have been regarded as a "completed" flight, under one organization's definition that had been created for other purposes, does not change the fact that Gagarin was the first person to fly in space. At best, the assertion that one organization might not have recognized Gargarin's flight as a valid spaceflight at the time is a minor aspect that should not be given undue weight. Whether that historical-definitional issue warrants any degree of passing mention on one or more articles can be discussed on the relevant talkpage(s). It certainly does not need to be discussed in every article where Gagarin's or Shepard's flights are mentioned. The consensus here and on other related discussions is sufficiently clear that I see no need for an RfC as had been proposed.

The principal dissenter from the consensus was the IP editor (as noted, the IPs participating in this discussion are the same editor, whose assurance I accept that the IPs involuntarily changed for network reasons). That editor has now withdrawn from the discussion. To that editor if you read this, I say that while striving for accuracy on Wikipedia is often commendable, so too is accepting consensus when it has become clear, particularly where the issue is a purely definitional one rather than an alleged misstatement of objective fact. I hope you will bear this in mind if you return to Wikipedia in the future; your doing so would substantially improve both your editing experience and that of your colleagues.

The closer specifically mentioned that although it's a definitional issue all along, it is a WP:MINORASPECT which doesn't needed to be put in articles every time their flights are mentioned. However, the possibility of it being passing mentions by whatever extent on some articles is left open; My preference would be restoring the information in full or in part in Timeline of the Space Race and Timeline of space travel by nationality, while leaving the rest untouched and the former effectively serving as a "demarcation line". Discussing about what "extent" to go may see a repeat of the arduous atmosphere in the NPOVN discussion, so I'm more than content to roll the whole ball to you who I'd trust to have substantial expertise to figure these out.

Lastly, I think there might be similar definitional issue at OPS 0855 and Salyut 1, the former can be construed as the "first space station mission" if the term is broadly defined to include boilerplate missions. Unlike the Gagarin/Shepard spaceflights, there is no reliable sources whatsoever to cover it yet so it's certainly bound to fail WP:V.

Godspeed.194.145.237.79 16:26, 27 July 2022 (UTC)