User talk:Donald Trung/Archive 369

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This Month in GLAM: February 2022





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About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 16:19, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #511

22:05, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

World of Coins mother coins

Page.
bgriff99, World of Coins Forum.
Not a mother (coin).
Manzikert, World of Coins Forum.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:46, 10 March 2022 (UTC) .

21:14, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Ancient Goryeo coins

"Title" field(s).
  • Konwon Chungbo (乾元重寶) - Dongguk (東國) - National Institute of Korean History (國史 編纂 委員會) 0X.
"Source" field.

61E4A74DDA3452C82 Source image]).

Source links. LINK 🔗. De
Description of the oldest cash coin. (1).

"Korea did not begin to use money until the Koryo Period (Goryeo 高 麗) (936-1392 AD) when coins from China's Song Dynasty (宋朝) (960-1279 AD) were imported and began to circulate. Prior to this time, barter based on rice and cloth was the principal means of exchange."

The earliest known coinage that circulated in Korea were Song Dynasty cash coins during the Goryeo period, however, the earliest suspected native produced in Korea is the Konwon Chungbo (乾元重寶) based on a Tang Dynasty cash coin with the same inscription.

"Nevertheless, Chinese coins dating back 2,000 years have been found in ancient Korean tombs proving that Korea was familiar with coinage long before the country began minting coins of its own."

Notably Chinese coinages have been found in Korean tombs two millennia ago proving that coins have been used in the peninsula long before they were being minted there.

"kon won chung boReverse side of kon won chung bo

               with tong guk ("Eastern Country")The first coins actually minted in Korea occurred during the 15th year (996 AD) of the reign of King Songjong (成宗).  This coin was cast in both bronze and iron and was based on the standard Chinese cash coin which was round with a square hole in the center." 

The likely initiator of this type of cash coin is King Seongjong of Goryeo, but there exists controversy if this isn't a much earlier cash coin.

"A bronze example of the coin is shown at the left. It was unearthed in the city of Kaiyuan (开原) in China's northeast province of Liaoning (辽宁省). The bronze coins are much rarer than the iron ones and most of these coins have been found in China's northeast (Dongbei 东北) and in the northern part of the Korean peninsula."

As these cash coins have been found around the area of what used to be the Kingdom of Balhae it is suspected that they in fact pre-date Goryeo by several centuries.

"The coin has the same Chinese character inscription, 乾元重寶 (kon won chung bo), as the coins cast during the reign (758-762) of Emperor Su Zong (肅宗) of the Tang Dynasty."

"While the inscription on the Korean version of the coin is identical to that of the Chinese, two additional Chinese characters 東國 (tong guk), meaning "the country of the East", were added to the reverse side of the coin to indicate that the coin was from Korea which is a country east of China."

"There is some controversy, however, concerning who actually produced the coin since no ancient Korean historical references mention it and the coin did not appear in any coin catalogues until 1938 when a Japanese coin catalogue (東亞錢志) attributed it as being Korean."

"Some experts believe that these coins were actually cast by a Chinese state known as Bohai (渤海国) which existed in the area during the period 698-926. The Koreans consider the state to have been a Korean kingdom known as Balhae (발 해渤海). Unfortunately, no historical records exist from Bohai (Balhae) in regard to its coinage."

"During the period 998-1009 AD, another coin was produced which was also based on a Chinese coin. This coin had the inscription 開元通寶 (kae won tong bo) which was the same as the coins cast during the reign of Emperor Gao Zu (高祖) of the Tang Dynasty. However, use of these coins gradually declined and barter again became the predominant means of exchange."

Description of the oldest cash coin. (2).

The earliest known coinage that circulated in Korea were Song Dynasty cash coins during the Goryeo period, however, the earliest suspected native produced in Korea is the Konwon Chungbo (乾元重寶) based on a Tang Dynasty cash coin with the same inscription.

Notably Chinese coinages have been found in Korean tombs two millennia ago proving that coins have been used in the peninsula long before they were being minted there.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 00:10, 14 March 2022 (UTC) .

Ancient Korean coins

"Title" field(s).
  • Konwon Chungbo (乾元重寶) - Dongguk (東國) - National Institute of Korean History (國史 編纂 委員會) 0X.
  • Haedong Jungbo (海東重寶) Goryeo cash coin 0X.
"Source" field.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:54, 15 March 2022 (UTC) .

Do you have a recommendation? (3)

I have been busying myself with helping the files which need to be more precise categorized, so only saw your response now, sorry about that! I know what "COM:HOST" is, but Beeblebrox firmly believed what he sees in my upload log that has violated COM:HOST, so your explanation does not work in my scenario. As you saw before, he neither understand nor know the photos of everyday things I took that living in an Taiwanese environment how be used for any educational purpose, so I tried to explain to him, but instead got blamed, and also when you say "change your mind" that sounds like blaming me seems to imply it's my fault. If this is the respect you give to the people that are uploading photo then I'd rather choose to focus on what I want to do.--Kai3952 (talk) 20:47, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

BTW, I enjoy taking photos with my smartphone while traveling and then uploading to Wikimedia Commons. If he hadn't stopped me, maybe I would have continued.--Kai3952 (talk) 21:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kai3952: , I find it really sad that you stopped doing this. There haven't been that many DR's so maybe you shouldn't give up this early. ☹️ --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
Do you know how much stress I've been under lately?--Kai3952 (talk) 08:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kai3952: , yes, yes I do. I am currently blocked on another Wikimedia website and have faced block threats before. This is why I feel sympathy for your situation, but realistically speaking I don't think that your uploads will get you blocked if you do some basic evaluations to keep the near-duplicates out. Try it for a week and see if someone will give you feedback (complain). It's your choice if you want to do this or not. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 09:02, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
No, my stress comes from you repeatedly attempt to convince me to do what you said. If you look carefully at what he said, it's clear that he doesn't want me to take those photos of any random everyday things that he never knew had clear educational purpose behind them. As for DR, the admin on Chinese-language Wikipedia has warned me since he knows what I've done on Commons. If I do not try to change myself and to learn the skills described by the CIR policy, then I will not win hearts with them (Taiwanese admins, Wikimedia Taiwan staffs and some users from Taiwan), but instead maybe even have the problem worsened (for example, my account be globally blocked), so I had to give up that power (to nominate the problematic photo for discussion at DR).--Kai3952 (talk) 18:10, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kai3952: , well, yes. Any lock here will immediately trigger either a request to the Stewards to lock your account or get a community global ban for you. If you feel stress from me encouraging to upload again then don't. It's your choice, it's a shame to lose another prolific uploader but then quit, you can always upload to Flickr and others will import your (useful) photographs. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:58, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, I'm deeply conflicted about what should be done about photos that may violate the HOST policy. I would love to upload photos but they want me to learn to work with other in ways that are benefiting a community of Taiwanese contributors. Because all my photos are taken for Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia articles and that it took a lot of time and energy but he said cruelly: "This is Commons, not Google street view." You said you are a Vietnamese-Australian and currently living in the Netherlands. However, I have to let you know how hard it is for I have traveled all over the Taiwan Island to take pictures. Anyone who is proficient in photography knows that outdoor photography requires good light, but traffic takes up more than half of the best time of day to take pictures, so mostly it is a race against time to get all pictures done before the sun sink down. We assume that I live in somewhere like West District, Taichung (I'm not from Taichung) as a starting point for travel. It took four hours to go to Taoyuan City. It took five hours to go to the city centre of Kaohsiung. It took six hours to go to Hualien City or Pingtung City. So far, the farthest place I have traveled was Taitung City and the town centre of Hengchun, it took ten hours to get there. Just because that every travel took so much time, I had to get up early at 3 or 4 am even at 2 am and then to go out for travel. When I get home it's usually 2 or 3 a.m. the next night, sometimes even 5 a.m. and the sun is about to rise at this moment, but I just got home and was about to go to sleep. This is only way to get a good light shot for every arrive at spot while traveling, so the photos you see were taken in the morning or afternoon. If you look at the map, you will find that most of the places I go are not as easy as you think. Not only do I have to go over the mountains, but to endure the inconvenience of the long ride (motor scooter) up the mountain road. For example, Dakanuwa, Lishan, Tataka, Wuling, Xiuluan, Xiangtian Lake, Yuli, Guanshan, Chishang, Fuli, Yunshanshui, Liouguei, the city centre of Taitung, etc. These places are so far away from where I live, I took neither breakfast nor lunch and also choose to hold back urine in order to gain more time to take pictures, so I made the whole trip look like I was "abusing myself". Do you know that schools in Taiwan are declining at an alarming rate due to the continued low birth rate? I took a lot of photos for those schools that might be disappeared in the future. Do you know that Taiwan in 2021 suffered its worst drought since 1947? I took a lot of photos for those places where droughts occur naturally, like Sun Moon Lake, Techi Reservoir, Yongheshan Reservoir, etc. Unfortunately, someone think that my photos are not useful for any educational purpose. I felt if I tried to argue and explain the rationale behind each photo, then things would have gotten worse. Because the Taiwanese admin has proven my his lack of cooperation (the continued arguing behavior by the editor being reported), then I quit arguing and stopped uploading photos and that really is the only option that I'm aware of. Once I decide to stop uploading, then it was hard to see any photos be uploaded again (which of course also contains Flickr). If you can help me to get rid of them by degrees, of course, I can continue uploading the 2000+ other photos. But can you do that?--Kai3952 (talk) 22:30, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kai3952: , excuse the late reply as I had failed to make the time to check my messages and missed the above. Anyhow, I really admire your dedication to preserve these things for future generations and the sacrifices you make; I really wish that I could help you somehow but I can't. It's a real shame to see you stop photographing and uploading. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 09:30, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
When I take a picture of something worth remembering, I never thought it would happen that someone blamed me and saying "This is Commons, not Google street view." I feel like everything I did was in vain because it means I not only lose the opportunity to upload any photos, but I also lose the opportunity to travel and to take pictures. To me it is like time goes by and never comes back. If time could be reversed, I hope I didn't commit such a mistake and just to enjoy the things which I love to do.--Kai3952 (talk) 00:53, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
I hurt every time I think about what he said, so I try to focus as much as possible on putting the best interests of our categorizing work first and foremost.--Kai3952 (talk) 01:17, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kai3952: , the only thing I can really respond to this is that I feel really sad about what happened, but I can't change what he said nor can I change how you feel about it. It's a shame to see such a passionate and self-sacrificing photographer stop photographing culturally valuable things, but I don't think that you will be easily persuaded by words and I fully understand your negative demeanor during this entire ordeal. I just hope that one day in the future you will try to be as passionate a photographer as you once was and get the opportunity to travel around the country again. I have seen your images be used in articles about random topics related to the Republic of China before so I am sure that many thousands of people have been educated by your uploads like "File:Front left view of Dakeng Earthquakes Park name sign, as taken on 7th October 2020.jpg" which is used at the Cebuano (Visaya) page about Dakeng or this amazing picture of hot springs you made. Your photographs are a net positive the sum of human knowledge and it would be a shame to lose them. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:47, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
You seem to forget why I did come here. I hope you can take a look at I caught in the dilemma of categorizing files.--Kai3952 (talk) 03:25, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
If you really care about my photos, why did you hide when I was reported by him? It's too difficult for you to convince me right now.--Kai3952 (talk) 23:49, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kai3952: , if you want to know the answer it's simple. Most people join Wikimedia websites because they want to contribute educational materials to help others and to them "the community" only exists for this, other people join only because they want "to manage the community" or maybe originally they cared a bit about educational material but over time their hobbies shifted and basically only "contribute" in the forms of deletions, removals, and warnings. While deleting bad content is necessary users who basically only deal with deleting content and blocking users have a certain disconnect, to them any reported user is the same as any vandal regardless of why they were reported. Anyhow, the latter type of people are the type that frequent Administrators' Noticeboards on any Wikimedia website, they don't actually value content, to them contributors are a dime a dozen and they don't care if the only major contributor to a particular field of content gets permabanned, to them the 5 (five) or less minutes it takes to clean up their "disruptions" is more valuable than the years of content that they could have produced if they weren't so hostile towards them. I'm from a Communist dictatorship, I know how these people think and I know that dissenters do not ever get forgiven. Your social credit decreases every time you disagree with one of those people and remember that for many of these people looking for any reason to block others is essentially their entire hobby. I prefer not to interact with them as there is nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I have a lot of projects I have been working on for years that will also take years to complete, I would risk the ability to work on these projects if I would defend you. In fact, I might be risking them by simply talking to you now. I know how user "Musée Annam" ended up, he wasn't a fully disruptive user until he turned mad after constant conflicts. My loyalty is to the readers and the re-users, it is to the people I want to give access to free educational material to, every time I interact with these people I risk this. Recently an admin insulted and threatened me simply for calling out that a deleted image had educational value, people like that wait for any mistake you do to pile up to ban you and then when you try to appeal these people will then deny your appeal while insulting you as "uninvolved admins". I'm going to archive this now as I don't want to risk my ability to complete a number of coinage-related projects before completion. They specifically told me that if I do anything wrong that they will immediately start a global ban request and sometimes these people e-mail me with mocking and threats.


You're from a free country (the Republic of China) so you don't understand the system intuitively, but I grew up being told what happens to dissenters and I mistakenly believed that this was an open project where criticism was allowed. This didn't end up well for Slowking4, Alexis Jazz, Fæ, Etc. I'm not willing to risk to lose my ability to contribute over this. Yes, I know the "first they came for the Jews" poem, but what that poem misses is that the first people they actually go after is those who dare to speak up, the specific groups come later. I'm not here to convince you, if you can't convince yourself to upload then take the loss, if you get banned the only response will be "you're a net negative contributor, we've heard enough from you". There is a reason why so few indefinite blocks ever get unblocked, the system isn't designed to let wrongs be forgiven or for people to learn, it is to exclude people and "inclusivity" is just another word for "including more ways to exclude people". What happened to you at the Mandarin-language isn't unique, this system is very much designed to do so. Any appeals to the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) will get you WMF banned with absolutely no reason given to you (as was told by both Kumioko / Reguyla and Krassotkin, they never received an explicit reason for their bans and only received generic automated messages and any request to know more was denied), there is only the illusion of transparency with "please direct questions at the WMF" when even those directly affected don't get Answers.
I still don't see any deletion requests for your uploads being out of scope and I haven't seen any additional threats towards you. You are likely just exaggerating the severity of your risk uploading. But from your earlier words you're unwilling to try to upload and you lost your opportunity to travel. You're not the only one this has happened to, as is the case with Judge Florentino Floro, as is with many others. At this point I'm surprised that he wasn't WMF banned. I don't know if Zhwiki has an ArbCom but any appeals through them will have a 99,99% (ninety-nine comma ninety-nine percent) of being denied and if they are accepted you will be sanctioned from essentially everything but maybe one (1) or two (2) things. And they will be laughing every time they think of your block, you're just comedy for them. If you cry, they will laugh at your tears, that is their hobby. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 09:52, 16 March 2022 (UTC)