User talk:Donald Trung/Archive 155

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The Signpost: 26 April 2020

News, reports and features from the English Wikipedia's weekly journal about Wikipedia and Wikimedia

Tech News: 2020-17

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

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18:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2020

News, reports and features from the English Wikipedia's weekly journal about Wikipedia and Wikimedia

File:Chinese cash coins a.jpg & File:Chinese cash coins b.jpg

Extract from here:

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 09:37, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

{{Extracted from|Chinese cash coins a.jpg}}<br>{{Extracted from|Chinese cash coins b.jpg}}

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:33, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Cash coin plantation tokens

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Japanese E-sen

Gm * ✓ Has a dedicated jmoirg page on Aiminedis Commoan now. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:51, 1 May 2020 (UTC) .

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Chinese charm tallies to extract

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Public domain book 📙 on Japanese numismatics



--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 05:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Serica

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 18:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Paizi illustrations to import to Wikimedia Commons

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:55, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Lu Xun (鲁迅, 1881-1936) and ancient Chinese (cash) coins

您好 @Baomi: ,

I know that you sometimes write biographies for Chinese people, maybe this article will be of interest to you “http://primaltrek.com/blog/2011/10/26/lu-xun-and-chinese-coins/” . However, on the English-language Wikilefis I couldn't find any information about this. Do you happen to know if this is true or not, and if the Xinhua News Agency article on the book on numismatics being published is true?

Also, if that book is in the public domain, then I could import it to Wikimedia Commons.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:46, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Apparently, there is a "Category:Lu Xun" on Wikimedia Commons and as he died in 1936 his works should fall under "{{PD-China}}". --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:49, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Also, the Xinhua article is found on Baidu here:

Generally I wouldn't consider Baidu to be a reliable source. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:51, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Japanese coin hoards

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:13, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

TransAsiart Xianfeng banknotes

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:34, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #413

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Tool of the week
    • zotkat's exporter for Zotero (a software to manage bibliographic data) allows you to export bibliographies to the QuickStatements format. It is helpful to easily create bibliographical entries, especially as Zotero can read metadata about works from dozens of other websites, and can thus be used as intermediary.
  • Development
    • More work on error screens for the Bridge
    • Use updated data for the Bridge (phab:T240223)
    • Display statements made with federated properties on item pages (phab:T246606)
    • Automated references: normalizing data that the extractor gets out of HTML pages (phab:T249004)
    • Create a distributed game so people can vet references easily (phab:T248997)
    • Cleanup rows from wb_items_per_site (phab:T249613)
    • Don't suggest initial uppercase in mobile termbox (phab:T241978)
    • Have the focus on field when adding new element on Sense (phab:T203461)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

Nieuwsbrief 91 Wikimedia Nederland


Nieuwsbrief van april 2020
Wikipedia vrijwilliger krijgt koninklijke onderscheiding | Bestuur Wikimedia Nederland | Wikimedia Hackathon Albanië...

Oude versies vindt u hier
Info over nieuwsbrief · Inschrijven/Uitschrijven · Global message delivery · Germien Cox (WMNL) (overleg) 28 apr 2020 18:12 (CEST)

Nyhetsbrev fra Wikimedia Norge

Wikimedia Norge
Wikimedia Norge

Hello, Wikimedia Norge members and other contributors.

Online wiki meetup April 29th, 17:00–18:00
Jon Harald Søby from Wikimedia Norge will explain how to help translating MediaWiki and other software on Translatewiki.net. You can join the meetup by using the same link as the previous online meetup, which is https://meet.google.com/ooj-hpyk-hmp, either via computer or with a smartphone. You don't need a Google account to join. Everyone is welcome to join, and we would like to remind you of Wikimedia Norge's safe space policy. The next meetup after this one will be on May 27th. We have created a page for meetup notifications, so you can be notified on your favourite wiki whenever a new meetup is announced. The link to add yourself to that list is on the top of the meetups page.
Wikigrants
The next deadline for wikigrants will be on May 22nd. All Wikimedia contributors can apply for wikigrants. The maximum amount you can apply for is 8 000 NOK. The wikigrant must be used for activities that support one or more Wikimedia projects.
The Wikipedia Library
On May 22nd, accesses to Retriever will be redispersed to active Wikimedians. Access to Sámi newspapers for contributors to the Northern Sámi Wikipedia will also be dispersed for the first time on the same date.
Monthly contest
In June, Iran will be the subject for the monthly contest. In parallel with this, there will be a contest about Norway in the Persian Wikipedia organized by Iranian Wikipedians.

Those who are interested in the ongoing rebranding process can check out brandingwikipedia.org for updates.

Did you forget to pay your membership fees for 2020? You can always re-register on this page.

This newsletter is posted by a bot. Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe

Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) 17:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

File:Photograph of a young Nazi for sale in a second-hand store, Appingedam (2019).jpg

File:Photograph of a young Nazi for sale in a second-hand store, Appingedam (2019).jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.

Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!
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Buidhe (talk) 03:23, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Banknotes to import from Baldwin's Hong Kong Auctions

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:30, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Counting rods

For extracting Manchu Qinf Dynasty mint marks from. Rare Qing Dynasty cash coins. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 16:21, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Chinese numismatic subjects

男您好 Baomi,

Here are quite a number of different topics that I want to write 📝 about. It's long and it's best to reply in e-mail 📧. But I am busy writing and writing about the monetary history of the Qing Dynasty period now, and I am finding a lot of questions that I cannot easily explain by myself.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. (“Baomi.Full.1. “). --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC) .

Gold cash coins don't make any sense.

I know that they exist, but the more I think 🤔 about it, the less sense that they seem to make. Cash coins have a square centre hole so that they can be strung together in larger amounts of money 💵. A single gold 🥇 coin would already be worth several strings of copper-alloy cash coins, no matter how rich you are, you'd in all likelihood will never be able to make a purchase that would require a string of golden cash coins, there is simply no practical reason to have golden cash coins. I know that throughout Chinese history gold 🥇 was almost exclusively used in sycees, but a small number of golden cash coins are known to exist and it all makes sense now why there is so little information about them online that I could easily find.

François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese
蒂埃里) TransAsiart website.

I have known about François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website for sometime now but largely let it be. I knew that it covered quite a number of topics but didn't explore it as thoroughly as I ought to have done. François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is a largely untapped treasure trove of information about both Chinese and Vietnamese numismatics.

For a long time I obsessively imported content from Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and neglected François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website, so let's first compare the two websites as sources of information before I dive deeper into François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website. An important note is that because I have completely mirrored Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website on Wikimedia that "All comparisons with Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website also apply to Wikimedia". So I will be using "Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website" for both the actual Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Wikimedia websites when they concern Chinese and other Oriental numismatics.

François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is very much more focused on the details of Chinese cash coins than Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website. Furthermore, François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website covers Vietnamese cash coins and other currencies items while Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website does this with Korea. The organisation of Chinese numismatic charms is most striking, as Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website tells the story and history of Chinese culture through its numismatic charms and amulets, François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website better focuses on the personal and political history rather than the superstitious. As someone who really likes reality over delusional fantasties it's almost a shame that I spent 3 (THREE (WHOLE)) years on making a mirror of the mystic and not the realistic. In fact, François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website seems to divide more easily into "digestible bites of information" rather than "walls of text", this makes both "divide and conquer" as well as "Unite and conquer" much more easy "to play" as those two are my foremost strategies. Of course, the biggest issue I have with François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is that it largely serves as an index of offline-only sources. Chinese numismatics is a rich (wo)man's game.

Another issue with François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is that it is in French, but French is too similar to English to be that difficult to read through. Now let's get into the topics that François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website goes into that is otherwise quite difficult to find. It goes surprisingly deep into Hongqian, well, not a surprise as François Thierry de Crussol is also specialised in Turkish/Turkic and Islamic coinages. This level of detail will be quite handy, as François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is arguably one of the best sources on Hongqian that I could find.

Hot-link 🔗.

This is the first time : https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=Fran%C3%A7ois+Thierry+de+Crussol%27s+%28Traditional+Chinese%3A+%E8%92%82%E5%9F%83%E9%87%8C%29+TransAsiart+website of the online search "François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website".

What François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese
蒂埃里) TransAsiart website does best.

Now, here is a very important distinction, while François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is run by François Thierry de Crussol, who is a globally renowned Chinese numismatist, he doesn't really have the infrastructure to incorporate Chinese numismatic news into his website, in fact almost nobody does. David Hartill basically "speaks through his books 📚" which require constant updating, theoretically. Only Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters website can easily integrate news 📰 into their websites. This may sound somewhat trivial at first until you realise that archaeological discoveries are extremely common in the People's Republic of China 🇹🇼 and that new coin hoards can greatly re-write what we know about history. Because of this I had to go fully ahead and completely incorporate Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website into Wikimedia websites, even after I didn't want to continue working my WikiCareer to death ☠ in doing so. What I ended up with are easily updateable content that I can easily expand with new information.

The lists 📃 of coin hoards in China and Vietnam 🇻🇳 are very good examples of how new discoveries can easily be listed on Wikimedia thanks to this. In fact I went ""way" beyond Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website " with Chinese coin hoards by including everything I could find on Kaogu. François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website doesn't allow for the same and it largely operates authoritatively on cash coins.

Of course, if anything this is just a case study on why dependence on a single source isn't good, Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters actually goes into surprisingly little details as she prefers to direct people to offline sources one has to purchase with their actual money 💵. As a poor person my dedication to Chinese numismatics is partially because I can't afford most of those books 📚 and don't want others in my position to spend a large amount of money 💵 to only get a few answers. The internet is beautiful in this method and that is something that is greatly explored by Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website, but not by many others that seem to treat the internet like "a surface only exploration", I'd argue that my "List of Chinese cash coins ny inscription" article may in fact be more valuable than many $ 100,- books 📚 on the very same subject. Of course, this was also the dream partially fulfilled by John Ferguson's Sportstune.com website and Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website. This is why importing both was crucial to its creation.

This brings me to the point where I explain the true value of Lars Bo Christensen's Ancient Chinese Coins Vs. Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website Vs. François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website. If Wikimedia Commons were to truly be "among the big players" it would need to be able to fully import the images of one of these. We've already been rejected multiple times by Gary Ashkenazy, and François Thierry de Crussol seems to deliberately be cryptic. I can't say anything about Lars Bo Christensen at the moment, but none of these three (3) websites have granted permission. Thankfully we did get John Ferguson's Sportstune.com, Dr. Luke Shepherd Roberts' University of California at Santa Barbara website, and of course (largely thanks to you) Jean-Michel Moullec's Flickr images. The largest and most important contributor being Scott Semans World Coins (CoinCoin.com). I hope to add Lars Bo Christensen to this list 📃, but I don't think 🤔 that I will ever be able to do so. Of course, there are countless of alternatives to come. For now written content will prevail and donors like Loong Siew from CoinTalk have already contributed a lot to the cause. To go further with François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website without any images might not be that big of an issue. I still want to upload more images, but Wikimedia websites have already "beaten" the aforementioned websites in almost all non-picture ways.

So the real expansion lies 🤥 in how we handle the data presented to us, I've already largely created the category infrastructure needed to guide any novel 📖 uploaders in the right direction and to index which cash we do have and don't have. As of now "clicking that link 🔗" will still be needed for getting a better picture of Chinese numismatics (no pun intended), but with more uploads, Wikimedia websites can become completely self-sufficient when it concerns Chinese numismatics.

One major step in this direction would be to continue importing all the necessary information. At this point there is very little that we can "branch out-to". The end results are clear, Wikimedia websites became "a Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website mirror" but without the images. This is a very good thing indeed, as it has saved a large supply of information, but it also showcases an "IBM-like dilemma", during the 1980's and 1990's IBM wanted to compete with the Microsoft Corporation, they created an operating system that could "do everything MS-DOS ans Windows can do", but it failed because it did not get Windows' apps. IBM built the infrastructure, but without the additional works by others it failed. This is essentially why you are the main of the movement of Chinese numismatics on Wikimedia websites.

This is where the Wikimedia philosophy of "Eventuallism" would be a great thing to quote, but my experience is that if I don't expand an article, nobody will. At least, I've seen articles unchanged for years. This is not to say that it won't happen, I'm an Eventualist myself, that is why I do so much infrastructure-building on Wikimedia Commons, but before I greatly expanded the Vietnamese cash article using lots of information that has been freely available on the internet for decades it just withered there. Wikimedia websites require passionate volunteers such as ourselves, there is much that can be improved upon, but unless anyone does it, it simply won't happen. Wikimedians like to tell each other things like "You're not valuable" and "The project won't miss you", completely ignoring the readers in the process. This is why editor retention and recruitment are such important things. This is why I want to try to bring more numismatists to Wikimedia Commons.

Websites like François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website are great, but something tells me that if François Thierry de Crussol were to die ☠ today that his website would have a lot less Longevity than Wikimedia websites. In this respect I believe that information without images are a long-term disservice to the readers as when the information is stripped from its context it will only tell half a story. Eventually all works will enter the public domain, no matter how much Mickey Mouse 🖱 lobbies, but we, the original WikiWriters, won't be able to add the right images and this is why a passionate community is needed. Unfortunately it's not uncommon when some people leave that it may take over a decade to only partially replace them. It will in all likelihood still happen, but the readers won't get all the best information ℹ immediately. I want to realise Dr. Helen Wang's dream of "having all information about Chinese numismatics in one place", this is better than "just another index 📇 of links" as what Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters has become, the last active Chinese numismatic website other than Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru).

"Build it and they {might} come".

I found many categories with lots of potential on Wikimedia Commons, often with no new additions in years. These categories include books 📚, banknotes, coins, everything really. There is this old saying "Build it and they will come", but it's not always accurate, this is in a sense "the trap of Eventuallism", many WikiWorks are decades old with no updates, yet there is plenty of information both on- and offline that can be imported on it. Some topics like military history have huge amounts of hobbyists, if one or two leave those articles will still be updated, heck a hundred can leave and a hundred more will follow in their footsteps. This just basically shows that "the pool to draw people excited about East Asian and/or Vietnamese numismatics from" is much smaller. I see them on many websites, but for whatever reason they aren't attracted to Wikimedia websites. Maybe the pool is in fact bigger but the system is less inviting? Another issue is that cash coins haven't circulated as money for many decades, in fact one impression that I get is that people will discover Chinese numismatic charms first and then venture into Chinese cash coins. I honestly believe that I might be the only person left that did the reverse.

Lars Bo Christensen, who surprisingly lists very little about Chinese numismatic charms on his website only got interested in Chinese cash coins after a Daoist Master gave him some ancient Chinese cash coins in New York to try to convince him of "the Power of Tai-Ch'i". In fact both Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website are charm-centric, Primal Trek being a reference to "The Primalheavan / Primal Heavan". Even Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru) grew out of a website named "CHARM.RU", which does style itself "the Chinese coinage web site". Meanwhile American numismatics is very often visited, maybe simply because American currency still circulates. Cash coins have as good as completely disappeared from all aspects of life EXCEPT for Asian Numismatic Charms. No wonder the association is so strong.

This strong association also means that very few sources (if any) will mention Chinese cash coins without mentioning Chinese numismatic charms. Japan 🗾 seems to be the exception to the rule. In Japan cash coins are very much seen as a monetary object rather than "a lucky one", this just shows the cultural differences that the Japanese have with the Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese. In Japan coin-collecting as a hobby is much better developed, on Wikimedia Commons this is expressed in the fact that Japanese cash coins are extremely well represented and that the Japanese-language Wikipedia has loads of local files of Japanese and Ryukyuan cash coins. While writing about Japanese cash coins I rarely missed in image, the opposite of Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese cash coins.

Wikimedia Commons needs to try to establish itself with the Chinese numismatic communities. However, most of them live in Mainland China 🇨🇳 (for obvious reasons) and because accessing Wikimedia Commons (and Wikipedia) from there, it's simply not likely that a large push from the place where most cash coin enthusiasts live will occur as long as Wikimedia Commons remains inaccessible to them. This has already largely been manifested with Baidu Baike ("Baidu Encyclopedia") where most cash coins tend to have individual articles based on inscription, my long-term dream for Wikipedia. So it's clear that we should try to recruit people in Hong Kong, Macau 🇲🇴, and the Republic of China 🇹🇼. Especially museums and numismatic societies.

In order to recruit people from the numismatic community we should create reach-out programmes, we should also host real numismatic upload contests with real prizes. Although the prizes to be one should by preference not be expensive but unique and personalised. But these things are all just peanuts 🥜 compared to actual advertising, if we could actually advertise Wikimedia Commons by having it appear in reputable numismatic publications, then reputable numismatists would want to upload their works here to advertise. And yes, we need advertisements because there simply isn't any other realistic way to spread knowledge of the existence of Wikimedia Commons. If nobody is talking about it, nobody will know it exists.

The main problem with the "Build it and they will come" mentality on Wikimedia Commons is that without people even knowing what Wikimedia Commons is, people won't come. Many people still believe that Wikimedia Commons is "just Wikipedia" without knowing about any images that aren't directly visible on (a) Wikipedia. It is also clear that Wikipedians enjoy their rather privileged position in the WikiWorld and have Wikimedia Commons revolve more around Wikipedia than vice versa. This wouldn't be an issue if this mentality wasn't also seemingly shared by the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF). It then becomes clear that the "advertising" will have to be done by the volunteers themselves.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. (“Baomi.Eventualism. “). --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC) .

Cash coins in art.

Now let's objectively look at the whole "Cash coins in art" happening, while the intrinsic reason for the creation of that Wikipedia article was to import all leftover non-coin hoard articles from Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website to Wikimedia websites, it also allowed me to express the concept both on Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. In fact the only two ✌🏻 (2) websites that would even cover the subject of "Cash coins in art" were Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters website. In fact, the others were "scattered across the internet". This is also why I like to create a database for information about Chinese numismatics, it allows us to expand beyond even the best websites about Chinese cash coins and Chinese charms.

I deliberately kept the information on Asian amulets in the "Cash coins in art" article brief as there were plenty of bluelinks that went into much, much more details. It's interesting that both Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters website tend to not categorise them as "Cash coins in art". If you do not have the vocabulary to express an idea you might not notice it, this is also the story of gravity before Sir Isaac Newton, people all subconsciously understood the concept, but as nobody had vocalised it, nobody could truly describe it. Even simple things require a genius. I hope that "the next great website about Chinese cash coins" will be able to build on my work in this respect, and because people notice it, that they will categorise it better. I too went years without really paying too much attention to it.

The idea of cash coins in art expresses itself quite differently, and because I had created that article I could easily "move beyond" Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website. In fact on Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters website alone there were a number of designs even Gary Ashkenazy missed, probably because he saw these cash coin-motifs in isolation rather than as a trend. Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters website lists cash coins in imperial Chinese porcelain, a French medal, among others. I even got old silver pharmacy ⚕ tokens from François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website. If someone gains an interest in Chinese cash coins today they can see that they extend much beyond Chinese "lucky 🍀 coins", in fact bank logos are a very good (and common) example where Chinese (including Taiwanese) people and Vietnamese people would see them on a daily basis. In Hanoi cash coin-motifs are literally everywhere. Sure, most in either Vietnamese numismatic charms or Tết decorations, but their presence is extremely common. Interestingly enough, because Chinese numismatic charms are so popular most cash coin designs tend to imitate Manchu Qing Dynasty designs rather than indigenous Nguyễn Dynasty designs. Even the "five great emperors" myth has been imported.

Once you learn about these concepts you will start to notice them everywhere. I think that writing about Chinese numismatic charms (thanks to Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website) has taught me more about Chinese culture than the years I have spent in China itself. This is weird to say. Cash coins in art are no different, their presence is common. Something interesting is that in South Korea people seemed to have been quite aware of the Sangpyeong Tongbo cash coins. In fact the "Cash coins in art" Wikipedia article names multiple instances of Korean cash coin arts. I really hope that more people will contribute more information to it, I am genuinely curious how cash coins are used in other ways. As of now, Wikimedia websites are the best websites for cash coins in art. Although more images are still needed.

My perspective on Chinese numismatic charms.

While in the past I would avoid Chinese numismatic charms like the plague and would become very combative if someone would call a Chinese cash coin "a Chinese lucky 🍀 coin", I think 🤔 that I have developed a form of Stockholm Syndrome for them (and thanks to importing LITERALLY ALL OF Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website to Wikimedia, except for most images) it's now undeniable by reading 📖 Wikipedia that Chinese numismatic charms aren't a part of the history of Chinese numismatics. In fact, while I have always collected Western tokens and coin charms I have always seen Chinese numismatic charms as "polluting", maybe this is because Chinese cash coins as a currency 💱 is all but forgotten, while their status as "magical coins" is evergrowing. Browsing through any article about Chinese cash coins you'd run into Chinese numismatic charms. Honestly, if I would see a Chinese numismatic charm in a shop now I might not even shy away from buying it, although I still have a strong 💪 preference for actual historical currency. But then again, I also collect casino tokens, and many Chinese numismatic charms were also used as such.

List of coin hoards in China.

In the case of the "List of coin hoards in China" Wikipedia article to say that I have completely beaten Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website would be a major undersratement. A couple of months ago he may have been the uncontested top of English-language coverage of Chinese coin hoards (Kaogu was largely minimal with information ℹ), but I managed to beat him in mere weeks. It took a lot of effort, first I had to COMPLETELY MIRROR Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and then do the same for coin hoards discussed in Kaogu. After that I took a dive into dozens of news 📰 archives and eventually I not only listed ALL coin hoards on Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website (including one from Japan 🇯🇵), but also expanded extensively far beyond it. Thanks to Andrew West (BabelStone) I managed to get several older ones, I managed to find coin hoards afrer Gary Ashkenazy "retired" from Chinese numismatics, and I expanded widely. By creating this list and the "List of coin hoards in Vietnam" Wikipedia articles I hope to set off a wave of article creations for numismatics that will also include similar lists for Croatia, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Tunisia, France 🇫🇷, South Korea, Iran 🇮🇷, India 🇮🇳, Pakistan 🇵🇰, Etc. My next planned venture wouls be a major improvement for the global study of numismatics, as Wikimedia could become THE database for registring such finds, which might inspire more numismatists and archaeologists to come here.

This list 📃 is both a major short-term solution and long-term strategy which cannot be understated enough. It was both my "Primalendgame" and "My seed 🌱 for future 🔮 numismatic expansion" in one go. I most sincerely believe that this list could become extremely valuable for anyone interested in Chinese numismatics, and if you (or someone else) would translate it into Mandarin-Chinese it might end up being extremely important for the study of Chinese numismatics in China too. For the past hundred (100) years, or even longer, these archaeological finds have done more for Chinese numismatics than any old catalogue 📇 or reference work has. By listing them all together in one place future 🔮 writers can write about individual hoards much better and list them all in one place. Maybe the list will have to be split, but this list may single-handedly make Wikimedia websites "the go-to website for (Chinese) numismatics".

You won't believe how many references I find to coin hoards in academic papers, in fact, I believe that creating this list 📃 will allow for Wikimedia to have a much deeper coverage of Chinese cash coins than through any other means. It's kind of ironic, it's my own anger 💢 that fueled me to build the greatest index 📇 on information on Chinese cash coins on the internet, maybe only after Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru) website. I of course had to make a "List of coin hoards in Vietnam" 🇻🇳 Wikipedia article. The thing about cash coin experts is that any Vietnamese cash coin expert also heavily involves themselves with Chinese cash coins, but not necessarily vice versa. I usually write Vietnamese numismatic content "parallel to China's". People often call Vietnam 🇻🇳 "China's little brother" or "China's little sister", I'd like to see it more like "China's Mini-Me" from Austin Powers. Chinese numismatics in Việt Nam is synonymous with native numismatics, while important differences exist.

Well, to sum it up "You can't understand Vietnamese numismatics without understanding Chinese numismatics, but you can understand Chinese numismatics without understanding Vietnamese numismatics". 🤣 This is why I generally make "miniature article versions of Chinese numismatic articles" for Vietnamese cash coins.

The general presence of these coin hoards just in general will allow for the information to be more easily accessible to anyone. But unless more will be added the inclusion will either appear very "random" or "Obviously based on Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Kaogu". But Rome wasn't built in a day, so I don't expect it to be "the definitive list 📃" for some time, but I've imported enough from both Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Kaogu to make it worth anyone interested in Chinese numismatics' while. Future 🔮 expansions are deliberately designed to be organic and easily done by anyone.

I do hope that more coin hoards can be listed soon 🔜 as it will definitely make it much, much better than any alternatives. As I've stated before, we should try to recruit more Chinese numismatists which would allow for the content to grow much better. This list 📃 is a major leap in that direction, although I hope that the list of Japanese 🏯 coin hoards will have a similar effect.


Books 📚 that might be of interest to you.


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中國錢幣 

[Chinese numismatics], 1 (2003), pp. 25–31. Wang Jun

王軍 , Yu Zhanyong 喻戰勇 

and Zhang Yushan

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安徽錢幣 

[Anhui numismatics], 1 (2006), pp. 22-24. Wang Shengduo

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Liang Song huobi shi

宋貨幣史 

[Monetary history of the Song Dynasty] (Beijing: Shehui kexue wenxian chubanshe. 2003). Wang Shengduo

汪圣鐸 . 

Liang Song huobi shiliao huibian

宋貨幣史料彙編 

[A source compilation of the monetary history of the Song Dynasty] (Beijing: Zhonghua shuju, 2004). Wu luling

武露淩 , Chen Jianwei 陳建偉 

and Wang Chungen

王春根 . ‘Zhu, niu, yang tijialei yaocai zhong wuji yuansu fenxi bijiao’ 豬、牛、羊蹄類藥材中無機元素分析比較 

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基層中藥雜誌 

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[‘Positioning stars’ are an important indicator of early sand mould casting in China], in
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自然科學史研究 

[Studies in the history of natrual sciences], 1 (1994), pp. 89-96. Zhao Kuanghua

趙匡華 

and Hua Jueming

華覺明 . ‘Beisong tongqian huaxue chengfen pouxi ji jiaxiqian chutan 宋銅錢學分剖析及夾錫錢初探 

[Analysis of the chemical composition of copper cash from the Northern Song period and preliminary exploration of coins made of tin alloys], in
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自然科學史研究 

[Studies in the history of natrual sciences], 3 (1986), pp. 229-246. Zheng Jiaxiang

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文物 

[Cutural relics], 4 (1959), pp. 68–70. Zheng Jiaxiang

鄭家相 

and Zeng Jingyi

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[Fragments of clay moulds for Kaiyuan Tongbao coins excavated in Wangcheng, Hunan Province], in
Zhongguo qianbi

中國錢幣 

[Chinese numismatics], 1 (1993), p. 31.
Zhongguo qianbi lunwen ji

中國錢幣論文集 

[A collection of papers on Chinese numismatics] (Beijing: Zhongguo jinrong chubanshe, 2002). Zhou Weirong

周衛榮 

(a). ‘Qi dao tongfanmu yu diezhu gongyi’

刀銅範母疊鑄工藝 

[The bronze mould for casting "Knife Coins" in the State Qi and the techniques of stack-casting], in
Zhongguo qianbi

中國錢幣 

[Chinese numismatics], 2 (2002), pp. 13–20. Zhou Weirong

周衛榮 

(b). ‘Zhongguo chuantong zhuqian gongyi chutan’

中國傳統鑄錢工藝初探 

[A primary research of Chinese-traditional coin-cast techniques], in
Zhongguo qianbi lunwen ji

中國錢幣論文集 

[A collection of papers on Chinese numismatics], 4 (2002), pp. 198–214. Zhou Weirong

周衛榮 . ‘Fansha fongyi - Zhongguo gudai zhuqian ye de zhongda faming’ 翻砂工藝 —— 中國古代鑄錢業的重大發明 

[Sand turning technique - a great ancient invention of Chinese coin casting], in
Zhongguo qianbi

中國錢幣 

[Chinese numismatics], 3 (2009), pp. 14-17. Zi Xi

梓溪 . ‘Tan jizhong gu qiwu de fan’ 談幾種古器物的范 

[On the moulds for casting several ancient artefacts], in

Wenwu

文物 

[Cutural relics], 8 (1957), pp. 45-48, 51.
Endgame

Honestly, at this point I believed that importing all content from Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website would feel more like a sense of "completion", before I came along Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website was the best single English-language source for information about Chinese numismatics and Korean numismatics, post-completion there still is a lot to do, and the (re-)discovery of François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website fueled ⛽ the idea that "there is always more to the story". At first I believed that Lars Bo Christensen's Ancient Chinese Coins would be this, but beyond the images it just gives some rather general historical content.

I convinced myself that afterㄖ completion I would be "done", but I was just being short-sighted. In reality, the world of Oriental numismatics is ever-evolving and by turning Wikimedia's coverage into "A snapshot of a snapshot (Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website) of Chinese and Oriental numismatics" would only gết me so far. I've talked before about how my entire WikiCareer is wholly defined by Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website, now that I am done with the importsI don't know in what direction to go. But importing as much as I possibly can from François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is a very good start. In reality, my goal 🥅 has been accomplished, but there is still so much I could write about. Stepping outside of "the Monosource blindfold" is impossible with my WikiCareer, maybe that is why David Hartill quit Wikimedia, his entire WikiCareer was defined by his "Cast Chinese Coins" book 📙, likewise Sema's was defined by his Art-Hanoi website (incidentally the only website about Vietnamese cash coins that doesn't go into Chinese cash coins).

In the end, a WikiCareer well spent, I would say. It was thanks to the content creation of those two (2) users and many more (and of course "Manymore", a non-Skinny Rooster 🐓 nickname of Gary Ashkenazy) that I could build on their content. I hope that future 🔮 contributors will build on mine, it's interesting that while my WikiCareer was wholly defined by Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website, it inspired me to also go after François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website, Dr. Helen Wang's Chinese Money Matters website, Etc. Solely to "compensate for the images". 🤣 🤣 🤣 Maybe that's where the next greatest contributor will come from, someone who will see all the empty image boxes and will want to fill them in.

But for now, improving and expanding what we have now is probably the best plan. I hope to list all Qing Dynasty period cash coin mint mark varieties, this is one of the most complicated periods in Chinese history, so whomever will come after me won't feel "overwhelmed by a/the to-do list 📃", and the wide variety of content will naturally invite people with more narrow interests to improve the content in a more focused way. I in fact gained an appreciation for Asian numismatic charms purely because of Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and importing it all to Wikimedia websites. I feel like these years spent hard-working on "a mirror of Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website" ultimately allowed me to become a "Primalclone" ("Garyclone"), even as his work stopped four (4) years ago, I'm building on it and "expanding his memes ever further" (if you're familiar with Memetics). And that's what Wikimedia has become, be it for the better or the worse. Chinese numismatic charms inseparable from Chinese cash coins.

More categories, more sources.

While on the subject of Chinese numismatic charms, François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website actually lists a number of Chinese numismatic charms that Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website doesn't, in some cases as "a mere expansion", but in other cases as whole new categories. Expanding the current content with François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website actually would allow me to finally call Wikimedia websites "superior in all matters (except for images) to Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website", but this will depend on the quality of the content on François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website, as I've stated before, it's largely just "a bibliographical index 📇" which in some cases gives quite detailed information ℹ and in others just tells people to "buy a book 📙", as my goal 🥅 is to allow people to read 📖 as much as they want about Chinese numismatics without having to spend a single Euro-cent, I might be the one forced to "dig into his wallet so others don't have to".

François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website is clearly "of the old guard" where dusty books 📚 take precedent, it's clear by looking at philosophy of Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website that he wanted people to be able to learn everything about Chinese culture and Chinese cash coins "without ever having to leave his website", something which I fully emulated and a philosophy I fully embrace with Wikimedia websites, internal blue links over external links 👈, other than sourcing. You will notice that I avoid the "External links" section like the plague, unless I link 🔗 to Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru) website.

Telling people "to educate themselves" isn't exactly educational.

The Journal of East Asian Numismatics (JEAN)

I completely forgot to mention the importance of the Journal of East Asian Numismatics (JEAN) above, it's perhaps the best example of what we have as "Chinese numismatic news" today, it also covers Japanese 🏯, Korean, and Vietnamese cash coins and modern numismatics. I will actually be looking much, much deeper into it, once I will be done with François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website, it's very wide in its scope and range and many different "top names" in Oriental numismatics write 📝 in it. I would say that as of now the Journal of East Asian Numismatics (JEAN) is "the internet's saving grace" when it concerns Oriental numismatics, and it's a great shame that not more numismatists link 🔗 to it. In fact, I discovered Howard A. Daniël, III through the Journal of East Asian Numismatics (JEAN).

In fact, the Journal of East Asian Numismatics (JEAN) has inspired several Wikipedia articles about Oriental numismatics.

Innovating the Wiki-way.

Wikimedia Commons actually allows for Chinese numismatic charms to be categorised in a myriad of ways that both Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and François Thierry de Crussol's (Traditional Chinese: 蒂埃里) TransAsiart website, in fact while Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru) website uses Mandel's organisation with only 5 (five) additions making the total at 50 (fifty), Wikimedia Commons combines all of Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website (except for "Fish 🐠 charms" due to a lack of images), Mandel, and "Wiki-categories". This allows Wikimedia Commons to innovate on conventional models. In fact, I think 🤔 that an important "Legacy of my Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website-mirroring-based WikiCareer" will be my improved organisation of Chinese numismatic charms on Wikimedia Commons.

As op 29 April 2020 we already have more categories and sub-categories than Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru). This means that we have a better infrastructure for re-users. But maybe this is because in "the Wiki-Way" we always put re-users first (1st). Just another reason why this model works so much better.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. (“Baomi.EndGame. “). --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC) .

Template:Chinese numismatic charms.

This navigational template is bigger than most Wikipedia articles:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Chinese_numismatic_charms

When I click "random article" only around 1/6 (one-in-six) are actually larger than 10,000 bytes. I'm trying to document all of these. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

In January 2018 I would say that I absolutely loathed Chinese charms, now I just made the most comprehensive list of them. I also made the list in case someone else would "continue my work" after my retirement. This way all themes and categories would already be listed and it's easy to discover what is and isn't on Wikimedia Commons.

This navigational template should be the most comprehensive documentation of Chinese numismatic charms on the internet... If only it actually had lots of blue links 🔗, this is why we need more volunteers to upload these. There is a museum in Haikou, Hainan with over 5000 (five-thousand) Chinese numismatic charms, hopefully 🤞🏻 we'll be able to convince them to donate scans of their amulets.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC) .

One of the main reasons why I made the navigational template was because I knew that most people probably wouldn't check out the "Category talk:Chinese numismatic charms" page 📄 for missing categories, but after starting the draft I felt like giving up on listing so many different categories but then remembered that I wanted to "one (1) up Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website" so created it. It lists much more categories than Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru) website, but unfortunately the number of images linked is much, much lower. We will need a great effort to truly document them all. But rome wasn't built in a day and this list 📃 will allow "my successors" to have a frame to work with. Also it will show people which categories are still "missing" on Wikimedia Commons and hopefully will inspire people to upload them..... One (1) can always hope.

It's odd, the Chinese numismatic charms navigational template on Wikimedia Commons (as of writing this) is larger in size THAN THE ENTIRE ENGLISH-LANGUAGE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE FOR JAPANESE NUMISMATIC CHARMS, let that sink in. There are more categories of Chinese numismatic charms (from various sources like Gary Ashkenazy's (Hebrew: גארי אשכנזי) Primaltrek / Primal Trek website and Vladimir Belyaev's Zeno Oriental Coins Database (Zeno.ru) website, Edgar J. Mandel, Etc.) than all English-language websites in 2020. Chinese numismatic charms go extremely deep, literally every time I even think 🤔 about researching Chinese numismatic charms I discovere a dozen new categories before even beginning. No wonder David Hartill is taking so long with his book, he's really undertaking a sisyphusian task with this. I will just let David Hartill "do all the legwork", Chinese numismatic charms are just too much work for me, it's amazing how much variety exist. Although, it's unsurprising knowing that it's a lot older than Christianity. I really don't think 🤔 that I can expand that much now with the current resources. But I've already done a great deal 🤝. By my own calculations I have probably documented around 10% (ten percent) of all Chinese numismatic charms.

I prefer to focus on Chinese cash coins and will not shy away from Chinese numismatic charms, but don't expect to find that much information ℹ unless it happens to get in my way of researching other Chinese numismatic topics. Heck, there are literally Qian Pai charms, those short-lived lead tallies from the Mongol invasion period of the last days of the failing Southern Song Dynasty period HAVE THEIR OWN CHARMS, I mean, the level of depth is astounding here. I'm very much amazed with how deep Chinese numismatic charms go. Thankfully I have been greatly able to contribute to their infrastructure and hope that others will expand upon my work.

Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. (“Baomi.FINAL. “). --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

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