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File:Map of Australia and New Zealand with an inset.svg
Example
Australia
Goran tek-en, that lake you got rid of is actually Canberra, the capital city of Australia. You need to change the blue border colour and make the border the same colour as the other state borders, thanks.
Alextigers (talk) 18:34, 12 April 2022 (AEST)
Alextigers I don't understand as there are no cities at all in that map. Regarding the state borders, Australia is one state to my knowledge. Be more correct and specific if you want me to change something, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:33, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Your first upload was correct but that lake is meant to be the Australian Capital Territory. It only needs the grey dotted border lines like the other states/territories. Alextigers (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2022 (AEST)
Alextigers Thanks for the information and knowledge, I'm a graphic worker and has no knowledge of this.
I need to do an update for this map (all over) based on your information, thanks.
I will be back with a draft I hope you can check for me. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:52, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
No worries, take your time. Your map is great because the only Australia and New Zealand map that was on Wikimedia Commons was the grey map. I’m using your map for Australia's top tier basketball league (NBL). NBL are considering bringing back the Canberra Cannons, based in the Australian Capital Territory, possibly in 2023 or 2024. Alextigers (talk) 10:30, 15 April 2022 (AEST)
Noticed your recent update. I forgot to show you the Australia map. The lake does go through the Australian Capital Territory. Alextigers (talk) 11:20, 23 April 2022 (AEST)
Alextigers Which lake do you mean or did you mean river?
Uploaded new version with edited lines, hope its better visibility. I'm working on another version for Australia states, territories. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:49, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your knowledge, and if you ever need a map or illustration and you think I can help you just contact me, thanks. Done --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Oh, I mean river not lake. Thanks for helping me because mapping isn’t my strongest area.
Map you made is good for Australia and New Zealand. Hopefully the map gets added to location map~ setting. Not sure how it will get added but you may have a better idea then me. Location maps are good because you can adjust the size and add a caption below. Alextigers (talk) 00:07, 25 April 2022 (AEST)
Alextigers To my understanding Location maps is just maps following the conventions set up for them, Conventions/Location_maps. Very often they also have geographic limits of the map in the infobox like here France location map.
They are also added to special Categories for just location maps. Other from that they are just as any other map and adding a caption (I guess you mean in a wikipedia article) should be possible to any map to my knowledge. I don't know much about creating an article in wikipedia but a file is a file. Addjusting the size (do you mean thumbnail or other) should also be possible for any map/file. There is a difference between a bitmap (png, jpg etc) and a vector (svg) map/file. A svg file can be enlarged to any size without loosing any sharpness (other things will happen which will effect the image) but if you enlarge a bitmap bigger than what it's pixel size is, it will become blurry.
If this doesn't help you you will have to be more specific and link me to show what you mean. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:05, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Another Hundred Years' War map?
Extended content
You have been the go to map maker for the surge in activity in Hundred Years' War articles over the past three years. This has seen twenty articles achieve Featured Article status - 0.33% of all the Featured Articles on Wikipedia! This surge will shortly be coming to an end, but there are two of the more important articles on the period to go. The magnificent maps which grace these twenty Featured Articles include:
I am hoping that I might impose on you for one more masterpiece, which would be similar to the second of those above. I have had a request up in the usual place for a while, but it has attracted no takers, so please excuse this direct approach. Obviously if time or motivation means that you decline I entirely understand. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:24, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild Thanks for that information and kind words and I'm honored you trust me with this.
I will help you with his map, yes, but I will have to ask you to come back to me in mid January because right now I have a bad period with my self.
Just leave me a message here in mid January and we will go from there. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:40, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, please feel absolutely no pressure, but pinging as requested. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:13, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild Hi, please give me information on what you want and we can work from that. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:59, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
I can't find an on line version of the map I want. So I will email you, if you reply I should be able to email you a scan. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:09, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild I think the scans will be good enough.
I will need the source of the map, books name, author, page etc.
Do you want, dates, battle marks (where), the names Prince, Van, Rearguard, King Jean and what else? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Rogers, Clifford J. (2014) War Cruel and Sharp: English Strategy under Edward III, 1327–1360, Boydell Press ISBN: 978-0-85115-804-4.
Dates, yes please. P, V, R etc, no. French and Black Prince's forces shown separately, yes. There will be some additional bits to come on some of the Prince's units, but I thought it best to get the basics sorted first. The map will be to support this article: .
That looks excellent. I can't off hand see anything to improve on the base map. Except, maybe, is it possible to indicate that some of the settlements were major cities? Perhaps by filling in their circles and/or having their names in bold? (Eg Bordeuax, Tours - there are others.)
Puyguilhem: leave it out - the march went near, not through it, it is not mentioned in the article and so close to Quinsac it may look cluttered.
Montlouise, Montbazon Yes, correct positions. But could we show the name of Montlouise to the left of its location? Moving the purple arrow so it ends immediately above the "T" of Tours.
Could Tours be shown as a major city. (I missed it.)
Could we remove the purple King Jean and green Prince.
To the right of La Haye 13 Sept should be in green. Below it in purple could we have 14 Sept?
Could we add a dashed green line from St Benoit to St Amand, but only starting halfway there? Then continuing to Bourges, Aubigny and Romorantin. Arrival date at Aunigny was 28 Aug. (The arrival date at Bourges is not known.) If this is possible, we can remove the green Rearguard from next to St Amand. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:57, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Structured data/Items portrayed in this file, the Q#, to be able to upload it at commons, thanks.
Sorry, but I got completely lost on that page. Could you give me an example of a structured data so I have some idea of what I am looking for, and I shall have another explore. Thanks.
Could we reverse the order the routes are listed in?
Could Rearguard have a lowercase initial "r"? (My error.) Gog the Mild (talk) 18:06, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild One other thing I have been thinking of. It's written Black Prince but at La Haye 13 Sep it's just Prince. Is this correct? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:43, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
I think that we can dispense with the word next to La Haye, it seems clear from the map. 86.131.179.195 22:34, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
I didn't understand if you wanted me to remove something. If anything needs to be edited just let me know.
Structured data, yes it's really big and complicated, I have just started to understand a tiny bit of it. If you look in Description I have added some there and in the tab Structured data I have also added, please check.
Please check all the information, also links for wikipedia, wikidata and structured data.
Hello! I have a request for you.
File:People together.svg is supposed to be the SVG version of File:Together.png. However, the SVG version has a white halo aroung the characters (it can easily be seen on a non-white background). Could you remove the halo from the SVG?
For your information, the corrected SVG should be used at w:Template:Close relationships. Veverve (talk) 20:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: you have removed all white parts from the image, including those on the characters. I had only asked for the halo around the characters to be removed, see File:Together.png for a model of the result I ask. Veverve (talk) 17:25, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
I'd love it if you could convert some more West Point maps. I plan on helping to make more detailed operations maps, especially for this period. (Most are in Russian or French. West Point maps tend to be inaccurate.)
One with the actual operations and one that's more like a "basemap". So, 4 maps? Sorry for disturbing you. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 21:16, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
First you have to check what type of license there is for those maps in the pdf files.
As I understand you, it's a base map for each so I suggest we start with Bagration base map. Area of the map, what do you want included etc? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:50, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en It's public domain of the United States, also found the originals on wikimedia:
@TheStrandedDemon Thanks, if you want me to use any maps from your last link you would have to specify each whit a direct link and what to use on each link. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
And, in regards to railways, I have a map which only shows major ones (similar to the one used for the WW1 maps). I'd like for those to be added (sorry for switching up):
It's fine if you can't use the second map, I can't send it since it is a quite frankly massive file. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 13:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon I'm working on the base map and it takes some time.
Do you want all of the railroads on the Fischer map? If not which ones do you want? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 19:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon The Fischer map is very different in proportions, type of map so it's very difficult to make it fit with the today's maps I use as base. Do you have another one that might work better? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 19:36, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en Railway maps are hard to come by for this area (specifically in 1944, due to the rapidly changing networks), and I haven't really found any. It's fine if you exclude them. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 13:24, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Polatsk is supposed to be on the river (the one directly to the south of it).
Ovinsk is supposed to be Dvinsk.
Many cities are missing (but I think you know that) TheStrandedDemon (talk) 20:51, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon Didn't you read what I wrote above, among it "
This is the cities I could find out, if you want more you have to give me the GPS locations and names." --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:07, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en I've been on vacation in Florida, I'll have it all compiled in early March. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 18:24, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon Sounds nice, hope it was a good vacation. Anything else I can add to the map in the time gap. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:09, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
This is what I've compiled (so far). Make a draft so you know if cities are too big, if some need to be removed, etc., TheStrandedDemon (talk) 01:50, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm sorry but to me your coordinates are off. I have just checked the two first ones:
- Minsk: 54.14243182901964, 27.98533633108513
mine, 53.9051,27.5592
- Vitebsk: 54.01985132497074, 30.41025211357034
mine, 55.1867,30.2048
so, as I can see it you need to check them all, sorry. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:30, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon Wait with checking, I will see what I can add by the names and then we will see what needs to be fixed. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:14, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm not exactly sure of the problems. All I can see is that the coordinates are (a bit too) exact, as all of them are basically in the absolute center of the area. However, some of them are a bit off location, so I'll fix those. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 16:48, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Also, many of the cities are listed with their old names. Voroshilovgrad is known in modern times as Luhansk. Stalino is Donetsk, Polotsk is Polatsk, etc. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 16:50, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon Do you want to continue and finish this map now. Then I need the info regarding which cities you want added, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:09, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
I nearly forgot, my fault. I'll have it done by tommorrow. TheStrandedDemon (talk) 20:59, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
@TheStrandedDemon I do understand life is more than commons, but I would really appreciate if we could continue and finish this, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:10, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
It's not my intention to push you, if you want to continue at a later time, please let me know.
To me this was all of the cities but if you have more for the base map just send me.
To me Kirovo: 58.5541, 49.9886 is outside our map area
Check it all for the base map, but please remember that the final placing of names can't be made until we have everything in the map, also the visibility of texts can't be finished until than.
@TheStrandedDemon It takes to much energy from me to keep pushing your request so I will wait until you have the time, just contact me then, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:06, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Yet another Hundred Years' map?
With the campaign leading up to it at FAC I am now working on the actual Battle of Poitiers. I was wondering if you might be able to assist me with a battle map or two? If so, the main one[s] would be based on this template. Fancy having a go? Thanks either way. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:27, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild I can but right now I'm working on other things. Ping me in a couple of weeks, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:09, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild So, now we can work on your map. Can you explain more what kind of map you want, which information etc.
Can you provide me with link to original map or info if from a book and what copyright status it has. I have found the location, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:45, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
New map request: Donbas
Long time no see! It's glad to see you're still churning out maps after all these years. I have a new, relatively simple request, if you've got some time. Presently, the English Wikipedia article on the Donbas region uses a relatively junk map that I made myself. I was hoping you could make me a new one. On this new map, I'd like to show the separation between Russian-held territory and Ukrainian-government held territory. A good model would be this map, though without including Belgorod or Berdyansk. I'd also like an additional map, the same map, without the Russian-held territory marked. Is this something that could be done? As far as map requests go, I think it should be pretty simple. Do let me know! RGloucester (talk) 15:54, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Extended content
@RGloucester Yes years passes and you have also been around here for a while, I do hope this doesn't mean we are getting old... It's actually quit nice not to know to much about the users one collaborate with here, no age, no social, no political, no religious and other issues to be concerned with.
Of course I can help you, you probably didn't share your drive file to everyone as I can't access it.
Will this not be some out of many maps to come and with shifting lines, areas, etc. But I now realize you are just talking about the Donbas area, not all of Ukraine. So I'm thinking if it would be worth it create a solid base map, I haven't checked yet what we have already. Get back to me and we take it from there. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:52, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Indeed, it's a pleasure. Sorry about the broken link. Try this. My goals here are as follows: 1) to establish a good quality base map of the Donbas region within Ukraine and the surrounding geopolitical area 2) to have a map portraying the 'frozen conflict' state of Donbas that persisted for eight years prior to the present invasion. The map I've linked you is quite good. It shows rivers, oblast boundaries and names, the line of contact, and critical cities, though we might want to add a few later. RGloucester (talk) 18:08, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester I would need a direct link to where you found the map and what copyright it holds, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:53, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
It's from a CNN live page, which is quite hard to link. Try this. RGloucester (talk) 13:33, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucesterFound it here and I will treat it as CNN has copyright on it. This means I can't redraw (copy) from it but use it as a source of information. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:41, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Keep in mind, we have a map that you made before that might be of some use in the drawing the new one, though the boundaries, scope, line of control are different. RGloucester (talk) 13:45, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester Thanks, yes I have looked at it, will see if it's to some use. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 19:00, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester I have added what I could see on your source and guessed some. Tell me what to add, remove or edit. Do you want forests, mountains and stuff like that in the map?
----
Those drafts are PNG versions of the original SVG file I'm working in and will upload to commons.
Draft 2 looks good, thank you. Proofreading wise, a few things to note. One, the map does need to have a 'Donbas' marker running through it like the CNN map. Second of all, the Donbas region (Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts) should be a different colour (highlighted) from the surrounding oblasts.
Additionally, it should be 'Zaporizhzhia', not Zaporizha. The oblast name for Kharkiv is missing, and it would be nice you could put a marker for Kharkiv city. Markers for Rostov-on-Don, Kramatorsk, Makiivka, Horlivka, Sloviansk, Melitopol, and Sievierodonetsk would also be useful. You can try adding forests and mountains, but this is primarily a political map, so no need to go 'overboard'. Names for major rivers like the Dnipro and Don would be appreciated. RGloucester (talk) 15:43, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester Sorry for not being clear, those are drafts for the base map, before adding the specific things you need. I will fix things as above. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:51, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester I haven't added the text Donbas yet as you have to explain to me what it means, which area, or other meaning, check everything, thanks.
Looking good. The 'Donbas' text is intended to indicate presence of the Donbas region, which is constituted by Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. You can see I did a similar thing on this rubbish map I made a long time ago. Finally, I forgot to mention it, but please mark the Donets river, Zaporizhzhia city, and Dnipro city as well. You can change the text for the occupied territories to 'Occupied by Russian separatists' for simplicity. Also note, I'll want an additional map that does not mark the separatist-controlled territories. RGloucester (talk) 19:31, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester I indicated that Donbas region is special by the text, if you don't want it like that just tell me.
We'll finish this first and then we'll talk about the second one, draft-3. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:55, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Looks good, but about that text, it's present placement makes it look like only the separatist-controlled area is 'Donbas', when actually, the whole highlighted area of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts is 'Donbas'...I think perhaps the text needs to made bigger and centred over the lined of contact so as to avoid confusion, maybe? RGloucester (talk) 14:28, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester That was my intention and believe, only separatist-controlled area.
Draft 4 looks great! I would name it 'Donbas (2015–2022)', and put it in Category:Maps of Donbas. The description/caption can be 'Map of the Donbas region of Ukraine, showing Russian separatist-controlled territory from the signing of the Minsk II agreement in 2015 to the outbreak of 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine'. RGloucester (talk) 15:54, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
What was the other version you wanted? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:42, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! The other version would be the same exact map, but without the separatist territories marked, i.e. just a map of the Donbas region. RGloucester (talk) 17:45, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Additionally, have looked at the map sitting in an article now, I notice that the 'Donbas' marker is really quite hard to see. I think it should probably be the same size as the 'country' markers, given its primary importance in this map, and perhaps in a more visible colour... RGloucester (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps the problem is also one of scale? I notice File:War in donbass.svg is much easier to read. I understand it is additional work, and I do apologise, but perhaps the scale can be remedied to something closer to that? There are a lot of unnecessary parts of Russia on the present map. RGloucester (talk) 18:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
The only viewing scale I have some kind of control over is when a map is viewed in 100%. All other sizes is impossible to control or predict. A map that is legible in 100% can not and will not be legible in all other sizes so it's always very hard with thumbnails in different sizes.
I have uploaded a new version which I hope/believe will work better in the article, feedback please, thanks.
In 100% this map is 1000px in height, the other map is 800px in height and they cover different areas so this map is bigger in size. The texts in both maps a very close to each other in size. But when you create a thumbnail of e.a. 330px in height the down-scaling will be greater from 1000px.
How big a map should be in px is always depending on how it will be viewed and the content in the map. As a "standard" I often use 1000px in height as that is a size which fit in most screens and will be good to be viewed in 100% and as the content here at commons can be used in any way it's a good middle way for me. Even if your usage of a request is a known usage I always try to create so the material can be used as widely as possible as that is the basic idea of wikimedia.
Regarding the unnecessary parts of Russia, I show the requester drafts so they can give me feedback about everything in the map which includes the overall area it's covering. The source you provided also covered this area and that was what you asked for.
Of course I can change the overall area which the map covers but the width is not the problem here regarding the visibility of the Donbas text. Please give me feedback regarding if you want the over all area to be changed, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I understand. I apologise for my unlearned comments, I just wasn't able to actually tell how it would look until it was placed in the article. With the improved Donbas text, however, there is no need to change anything; it is much more legible now. Thank you for that.
For the second (base) map, though, it would be better cover an area similar to File:War in donbass.svg, if that is at all possible. Thank you in advance. RGloucester (talk) 15:21, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester No need for apologies, we all just work with what we know and have experience of, I tried to explain how I think and work with this, hope it was OK.
In this base map draft-1 I have cut away some of the part to the right. I can take away even more but then I have to change the legend part so it doesn't block the interesting parts.
Did you want me to keep the specific Donbas parts like in this draft? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:11, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
This draft looks good, and yes, the Donbas text should continue to be included, but I do think more of the right can be cut away. A simplified legend is probablly preferable for this version of the map, anyway. RGloucester (talk) 16:15, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester Then you have to tell me what to remove. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:43, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester You wrote "A simplified legend is probablly preferable for this version of the map, anyway." So then you have to tell me what you mean by this, what you want removed, it's your request I don't know. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:50, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
I think the compass and scale are sufficient. Further indicators should not be necessary on this map. RGloucester (talk) 13:32, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Looks perfect! Thank you! You can use the name 'Map of Donbas region', in the category Category:Maps of Donbas, with the description 'Map of the Donbas region of Ukraine'. RGloucester (talk) 18:14, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you so much Goran, as always. Keep well! RGloucester (talk) 19:51, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Langues d'oïl Map Request
I like your map map of French dialects. The Wikimedia description should have a key for use on articles. For example, what are the red and blue areas? Is there a difference between the green and yellow shading? A simple key could allow writers to describe the image without making mistakes.
Also, consider labeling Paris with 'francien'. That dialect was one of the most important French languages and has evolved into standard French today. Thanks.
Flameoguy (talk) 00:51, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
@Flameoguy I'm a graphic worker and I made that svg map as a request from someone (I don't have any note of who) based on Départements+régions (France).svg and Langues d'oïl.PNG. As a graphic worker I don't have any knowledge regarding the content, that is normally the requester who has that.
I would be happy to add the information/content you are talking about but I need someone who has the knowledge to tell me what is what and how words should be spelled.
So if you have that knowledge/information, or you know how to get it, just let me know and we can improve this map together, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Requesting a Wikipedia Logo
Greetings Goran! May you please consider making a localised Wikipedia logo for Tumbuka language Wikipedia. Unfortunately we don't have our own logo whilst most local wikis do have. The English words "WIKIPEDIA" in Tumbuka translates "WIKIPEDIYA" and the motto "The Free Encyclopedia" translates "Nkhokwe Yavinjelu Yaulele". .
The Tumbuka Wikipedia is available at (tum.wikipedia.org). Thank you. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 15:33, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
@Tumbuka Arch Hi, I can help you but please link me to the logo you want translated so it will be the correct one, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 08:56, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Hello Goran,
Thank you for a helping hand.The logo needed is similar to the one on English Wikipedia,the difference being the language in which the words are written.
The English words "WIKIPEDIA" in Tumbuka translates "WIKIPEDIYA" (in capitals) and the motto "The Free Encyclopedia" translates "Nkhokwe Yavinjelu Yaulele" (with each first word capitalised).
The logo that need to be translated is here, and also you might wanna see this.
@Tumbuka Arch There are guidelines that should be kept regarding those logos and here you can see how the different languages looks like (I will add yours once we are done).
Thank you so much and countlessly for the amazing work you have done! I dont take it for granted.You cant imagine how happy and excited i am right now.Thank you for helping my wiki.Thanks alot! Tumbuka Arch (talk) 17:40, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
This map claims to the rather accurate, but in fact it is just based on a sketch. In the past weeks, I have mapped the correct positions of the berms using Google Earth in KMZ files. Is it possible that you extract the KMZ files in order to update that map? Antemister (talk) 16:39, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
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@Antemister I don't really understand, you write "extract the KMZ files" but don't you mean that you have an KMZ file and you want me to update the linked map with that?
If so I need that KMZ file, if I misunderstood please explain more, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:37, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
There are actually not one but six KMZ files, partly from myself, partly from different online sources, each showing parts of the walls. Have sent them to you together with an sketch from me what line is what wall. Your task would be to unify the files into one, and then update the map with them.--Antemister (talk) 19:50, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
I will look into it and see what I can do. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 20:26, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Hard to say... I took it from [1], then added missing parts by myself. These guys might never thought about anything like a "licence". For the wall between the Atlantic and Boucraa, use the white line (the red one the conveyor belt).--Antemister (talk) 21:07, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister This is hard as we are dealing with Google forum and tools. I know that I can't use Google maps to copy from so I wonder if I can do it here. I have tried to read but it's not that clear. I don't really feel like putting in work and have have the map deleted because someone say we can't use GE to copy from.
So my plan is to use GE and the kmz as information only, that I can do. It will not be the same degree of detail but then the kmz are at a hole different level of details which can't be shown in the svg map so I think it will work well.
I have looked at the different files and it seems that some of them show the same lines and there is a lot of material I don't need.
As I have no knowledge of this subject I wonder if you can organize/sort/delete in the files so I just see what to use. If you can't I will add material and then you will have to tell me what to change.
Also I'm thinking of if we should create a new version instead of overwriting this, we can decide that later on. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:46, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
You cannot directly copy data from GE, yes, but it is OK if you use satellite images to draw your own tracks, that's what I and the other guys did. And yes I also intended to use the KMZ only as a base, because the scale of the the tracks varies and especially my tracks are far to detailed to such a map. The degree of detail for the walls should be approximately the same as the the rivers and coastlines in the map. I just followed the existing walls on the satellite images, and sometimes there are two different walls a few kilometers away. In such case, I would recommend the "outer" wall that encloses a larger territory. You can also upload the image anew, then the older sketch map can be kept and marked as outdated.--Antemister (talk) 21:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister So now I need your help a bit. As always the different maps are different and hard to combine.
This draft is from the file Western Sahara Walls Version 0.6.kmz and is just a draft but all the lines from that file is their in the best position I can get it. There is no fine tuned done at this stage, will do later.
I want you to tell me what to keep from that kmz file.
To me there is duplicates within the different kmz files and it would be a great help if you could tell which to use in each kmz file, it's hard as I don't have any knowledge about this, thanks.
Looks nice, sent you a file where i have marked the lines that should be removed. But it would be better to upload a file which includes the paths from all the KMZ I sent you, all of them are needed.--Antemister (talk) 17:10, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I do understand but as (to my understanding) there are duplicates and unnecessary lines/information in those kmz files I ask you to tell me what I'm supposed to use as I don't have the knowledge to tell apart. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:29, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes there are duplicates - because there were some parallel walls constructed. That'y why you should create, at first, a map that includes all the walls, and then, as a second step, a map that shows only "relevant" walls after removal of duplicates. Sent you an additional KML that closes some gaps.--Antemister (talk) 17:41, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Forgot to save the PNG before sending, you have another email.--Antemister (talk) 18:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I was trying to save me some unnecessary work with the duplicates as it's some work to get them right but I will do my best, will be back. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:37, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
3 This Polisario boundary, should I keep it, if so should any area also be shown for it?
4 What is this, should I keep it? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:42, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
1) it's complicated... keep it as a dotted line ("die hilflose internationale Standarddarstellung")
2-4 show schematic, partially incorrect depictions of some of the walls (or "berms") that separate the moroccon and the Polisario territory. Remove all three!
--Antemister (talk) 20:16, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I had to extend the map up north as one of your lines went up there.
In the base map I have added more rivers and some topographic information as it adds more information on why a "wall" is just there.
Your kml lines are in red (just for now) and I need your to tell me which is which and what to edit. Also give me feedback on everything in this draft, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:18, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Had a look at it and marked the respective walls, see your emails. But actually, some walls are still missing, those that are not mapped as paths, parts of wall 2 and 4, as well as some connections between the walls in the northeastern areas (have also sent that file recently). Somewhat puzzling is the situation at Boucraa, I sent you also a screenshot how it looks like on my Google Earth screen (maybe an issue when converting the file?). In addition, in the southwestern corner, it looks like your map already includes the 7th wall build in 2020? Just saw that Google has new satellite images, so I can also map this wall. Currently I am not sure yet if every wall, including redundant one, should be included and if natural boundaries should be marked separately.--Antemister (talk) 21:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
In the file draft walls.png, do you mean that what you have left unmarked of my red lines should be removed?
In which kmz files should the missing parts of 2 and 4 be in?
In the file gaps.kmz I found a tiny part which I missed before but it's not in the northeast, some distance north of Samara. Please send me a screenprint from GE so I can see it.
I don't know which part you mean, I have zero knowledge about those walls, show me on an image.
Yes, but as a final stage, so keep it at the moment.
WSW.updates.kmz for Wall 2, western section, and wall 4, eastern section, and Western Sahara Walls Version 0.6.kmz, Syzygy's additions, line additions, wall 2, central section
The gaps.kmz, yes there is only tiny fort I mapped near Samara which might be usefall to complete the path, but actually relevant is the Sebjet Aridal (the Sabkha near Boujdour, you have it)
Have mapped wall 7, see the KMZ and the screenshot, with wall 7 in blue (wall 6 is in Western Sahara Walls (Version 0.6).kmz).
@AntemisterNew draft. I hope I got it all right now, will work more on the lines and other, ones everything is final. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:07, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Now it is as expected, have marked some minor modification: The red lines are to be removed, they are redundant, then the blue ones are natural barriers which should not be called "walls", and the black line should not the dotted it's a real wall only in morocco proper (in the northeast, the natural border strechtes of course directly to the Algerian border.--Antemister (talk) 21:57, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I didn't really understand your information regarding the black part. How should it look, like the rest of that wall, different color, please explain more what you want it to show?
This time I was not so quick with my response... anyway. The map is done (except for the dotted part of the 4th wall, should be a line like the others, and the natural barrier goes till the algerian border (red)), now the legend is an issue. Describe the walls as (st, nd etc as superscript if possible), and without the wind rose)
1st Wall (Dec 1980 – Jun 1982)
2nd Wall (Dec 1983 – Feb 1984)
3rd Wall (Apr–May 1984)
4th Wall (Dec 1984 – Jan 1985)
5th Wall (May–Sep 1985)
6th Wall (Feb–Apr 1987)
7th Wall (Nov-Dec 2020)
--Antemister (talk) 21:58, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Ignore what I have written above about the legend... After a further review I found out that practically all of the map sources I have used here are flawed, apparently because no one ever did a real mapping of these walls and used only Polisario or moroccan sketches. See the email, yellow is wall 2, green wall 3, and the other walls all get one number higher. When I read early-1980s sources on that topic, there is contradicting information when the "first" wall finished - some say 1981, some 1982. Now with that map it becomes clear why, the legend now is:
1st Wall (Dec 1980 – May 1981)
2nd Wall (??? – May 1982)
3rd Wall (Dec 1983 – Feb 1984)
4th Wall (Apr–May 1984)
5th Wall (Dec 1984 – Jan 1985)
6th Wall (May–Sep 1985)
7th Wall (Feb–Apr 1987)
8th Wall (Nov-Dec 2020)
The "rivers" on the map are of course not rivers but wadis and should depicted like these.
What also is needed a map that can replace (or update, it's about you) File:Western sahara walls moroccan map-en.svg - a political map that focuses on the territory enclosed by the walls rather than the walls itself.--Antemister (talk) 07:59, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister First, for the dotted part of 4th wall, Should it be the same color as wall 4 but maybe more transparent or should it be another color not used before? If another color should it also be in the legend?
How about the wind rose, why do you not want it? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:11, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
A wall is a wall, so don't see any reason to mark it differently only because it is in morocco proper (there are also walls on mauretanian soil! This was also never mentioned n maps before). The wind rose... it is not necessary... I know about a map graphist here who fights his private war against wind roses, have that from him. I mean, you can keep it, but everyone knows that north is at the top.--Antemister (talk) 21:54, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Structured data/Items portrayed in this file, the Q#, to be able to upload it at commons, thanks.
The superscripts works in this png but I'm not sure they will work when I upload the svg file. If not I might have to try something else.
After this is completed we will do the other one with the areas. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:19, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Upload the file as "Western sahara moroccan walls topographic map-en.svg"
Description/Caption: Location of the Moroccan sand walls in the western sahara
[[Category:Maps of the Moroccan Wall]]
Q510052 (Not familiar with the structured data, guess that this the correct)
So, a last issue regarding the image, can you expand the legend box? The spacing is rather small and above there is a lot of empty space, also the natural barriers and wadis entry should get a bigger line spacing. The superscript itself does not look as good as I expected, and if it causes problems you should remove it.--Antemister (talk) 11:54, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Now the map is as expected. But... found [2], saw that that CIA mentioned another barrier in the north. Found and mapped it, it consist mainly of natural barriers. Now it is explained why that 1st wall suddenly ends. Have sent you another email with kml and screenshots (purple natural barriers, pink 1st wall, orange to be omitted, don't know when that wall was built). And now it is final (researching sources while developing the map is not the best idea).--Antemister (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister To my understanding the sent kmz wasn't complete or correct. Look at this image, where the dashed green lines are from the kmz file. I had to break them up in parts, scale and rotate them individually to get as good fit as possible, I don't know why it was like that. In that image I have written some information but also a question for the part of wall 4 which is wrong to my understanding.
In this draft I have made the changes to my best but the lines are not finished yet as I believe there will be more corrections. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:12, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Saved the KMZ file again and also took a screenshot. Does it now contain everything visible in the screenshot? (the new KMZ is larger, so probably I have erroneously sent you an early version. The part marked in orange should be ignored by you and will not part of the map, it is one of the numerous parallel wall I mapped anyway to make the KML file a complete set of the berm.--Antemister (talk) 21:12, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister You were not logged in for your last post and I haven't received any new files, what do you want me to do? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Now with login, files sent again.--Antemister (talk) 17:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
No, keep it as it is. (the dashed line is a parallel wall, and in that case the "outer" one is relevant)--Antemister (talk) 20:05, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Done - perfect!--Antemister (talk) 14:58, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
OK, small detail, see the email, the green part in the northeast is also a natural barrier, otherwise there would have been a gap there.--Antemister (talk) 18:02, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Please check all the information, also links for wikipedia, wikidata and structured data.
Done
So for the second map. You have to explain more in detail which areas you want to be seen on it and other information I need, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
The second map should actually be nothing more than an updated version of File:Western sahara walls moroccan map-en.svg (which was my original idea about that). The only changes I suggest are a depiction of the walls also in Morocco proper and the natural barriers separate, also the color scheme could be more "logical" (if you have a good idea about that).--Antemister (talk) 19:43, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I always try to pick colors so that the maps will work for as many people as possible, also with color deficiency but it's hard (impossible) to make them work for absolutely everyone. Then you will have to use much more of patterns and the map will be hard to view by many others, it's difficult.
With regard to colors I thought about a color scale that makes the growth of the areas enclosed intuitively visible, something like in File:First Congo War offensive map de bitmap.png. But that might contradict accesibility
The relief is not necessary here, I assume.
The areas in Morocco and Mauretania should appear under a very grey shade - these territories are not disputed.
Colors: I can try but then I need to know for each area where it should be more and less growth. To my understanding what you want is lighter-darker color within each area.
Relief: That as necessary here as in the other map to me, we still has the walls here but we can see ones everything else is in place.
I don't understand for the areas. None of the areas are marked as disputed, so what is different in Morocco and Mauretania. THere is something here I don't understand about those areas, please try to explain, thanks.
It should be a depiction of the growth the area under Moroccan control. First the area within the first wall is under Morrocan control (pink), than the second one (turquoise) and so, then the third wall (dark red) etc. Don't know if a dark-light scheme is suitable, or another color gradient.--Antemister (talk) 17:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
It should be clearly visible that Morocco proper is different to the Western Sahara. You already apply a grey shade to Morocco, and it should be much darker.--Antemister (talk) 17:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
The growth is that it started with wall 1 area then wall 2 area etc and this progress should in some way be visible?
So Morocco is involved in some kind of "war" taking over Western Sahara? Sorry for my lake of knowledge about this subject.
The color of all area outside of Western Sahara (a bit darker beige, not grey, do you see it as grey?) is picked from Maps template-en as "land: secondary subject" which is a template we try to stick to.
Does this also apply to the minor areas whit walls 3 and 6 located are in the corner of Mauritania? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:54, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
1) Yes, that should be visible that way, if possible
2) To describe the topic in a few sentences (right to the end!). Morocco formally annexed the Western Sahara after it was released from Spanish dominion in 1975, since then there is a guerilla war between Morocco and the Polisario (militia of the local population). The walls are built to keep the Polisario forces out of the areas that are of economic importance, pushing them to remote areas near the Mauretanien border. What the map should depict is the growth of territories under Moroccon control and the decline of influence of the Polisario.
3) For me it's grey, but anyway, that is not so important. The template is designed for that type of political/history maps, unfortunately there is no template for these type of maps yet. As this map focuses on the territory of the Western Sahara, areas outside should be clearly distinguishable.
Both look look as expected, I prefer the colorful one. A reduction of the saturation, and an adaption of the line color to the color of the areas should be done, and for distinguishing Moroccan/Mauretanien territory compared to the Western Sahara a further reduction of the saturation in this area is likely better than the additional grey. (Note: There is a 9th wall, in the northeast, near the Algerian border, built in 2021. There are no aerial images yet in GE, but you can already reserve a color for a later revision.)--Antemister (talk) 21:54, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
AH, looks good! Did you remove all grey shade from the Moroccan Territory? The same reduced saturation should apply also to any areas outside the western Sahara.--Antemister (talk) 22:01, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister All of the areas outside WS has the same color as the part within WS but with 60% opacity of them, There is no extra grey shade.
If everything is fine now I will need the following;
In the Moroccan territory, a part of the wall is pink not red.
In the legend, there should be a "Territory enclosed by:" on the top, and the the "Area" removed from the line, otherwise it is not understandable for the uninformed reader.
Territory controlled by Polisario, not Polisario held terittory
It would also make sense to use the same color scheme for the walls in the other map.--Antemister (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Regarding changing colors of wall file: one could argue for that but on the other hand the colors picked there work for many with color deficiencies and as it's another map which is focused on the walls I think they are more visible generally all together. I do understand your point if they will be presented next to each other but then I personally rather would change the colors of the territory file as your wish for the colors to intuitively be understood as a flow/development is hard for me to grasp. So it's much a personal thing I guess. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Ah, Ok forgot that issue I am usually not aware of, so keep it as it is. After this is done now, is not possible to calculate the size area of the Polisario-held territory? There are up to now no exact figure.--Antemister (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
I have checked it by two different ways and none of them are EXACT.
In Inkscape I have calculated the area and then used the relation from the scale stock (this is very coarse) there and that gave me 87 388 km2.
In My Maps from Google I imported the kml/z and then I used the measuring tool there. I had to draw the measuring on top of the lines imported and I didn't do it by extremely small steps but fairly and that gave me 82 018 km2.
So somewhere around there and I think My Maps is more accurate than Inkscape because of the scale stock. I also think this measuring tool exist in Google Earth also so you can do it yourself in either of those tools.
Would be interesting to hear if this is about correct if you can find another size from somewhere else. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:35, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Of the major Wikipedias, only the German one, de:Demokratische Arabische Republik Sahara mentions an area of about 89,000 km², a figure that is unsourced. That's the reason which I asked that, as there was no accurate map of the walls before, it was hardly possible that anyone calculated an exact figure, such a calculation is then a side product of that map. As there is is a large difference, this seems to be an issue for a GIS expert. Do you have a kml file that unifies all my splinters?--Antemister (talk) 17:39, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I would trust the GMM much more, I corrected the area with the small part in the inner corner so now it's 82 373 km2. It's not hard to do a better measurement but I don't think there will be a so big difference, I have emailed you the file. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:38, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister It was a mistake with adding the inner corner area so it should be 82 018 km2 as I first stated. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:42, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
The map regarding the wall is now finished, thanks! Don't know if your still interested, two more (rather simple maps) on that topic are to be done. Do you want to continue?--Antemister (talk) 21:57, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister I can do that, please start new topic here. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 08:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
Western Sahara 1976-1981
In 1976, Western Sahara got independent from Spain and was immediately divided between Morocco and Mauritania, the en:Western Sahara partition agreement, which also includes a map. What the map does not include is the area controlled by the Polisario, for that I have sent you a snippet from the German de:Tübinger Atlas des Vorderen Orients. In August 1979 Mauritania withdrew, Polisario occupied the Mauritanian part, and during the following months Morocco step by step withdrew its troops to the "useful triangle" as shown here[3], which the area that then the area enclosed by the first wall. File names are then File:Western sahara territorial control 1976-1979 topographic map-en.svg and File:Western sahara territorial control 1979-1981 topographic map-en.svg, regarding the 1979-1981 map, mark only the moroccon-controlled area and leave the other area blanc, an expert on the topic told me that the Polisario hardly created infrastructure or "facts on the ground" at that time.--Antemister (talk) 18:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
2) Yes the blue area, added to the recently created relief map. The map should also include the demarcation line between Morocco and Mauritania, as shown on the linked page
3) The map on the PDF, the walls were later built to enclose/secure the area already under Moroccan control. Also here Relief map.
The colored area should fade, similar to the map of the Congo wars I linked above, as these are no fixed boundaries.--Antemister (talk) 16:50, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister You misunderstood me about the image, we have to state the sources here so I need to know where that image is from, link, book, page whatever. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:12, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Proper cataloging of the TAVO is rather difficult, use this:
Tübinger Atlas des Vorderen Orients. Reichert, Wiesbaden 1976-1994, Karte B X 11.2.
Regarding the map, there needs to be a distinction concerning the "control". The neither Morocco nor Mauritania had real "control" over the marked area, they only annexed and established bases in major settlements. So, these areas should be hatched, and a boundary line in between, and the legend says Territory annexed by Morocco/Mauritania. The area under Polisario control is then on top so that the hatches remain visible.--Antemister (talk) 18:37, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
OK, once again something that could be misunderstood, of course the Moroccan and Mauritanian area need distinct colors (red for Morocco, green for Mauritania, like their flags). And the Polisario area should fade out, it has no fixed borders.--Antemister (talk) 21:23, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister But you wrote "Territory annexed by Morocco/Mauritania" should be written in the legend and to me that means they should be one unit, but I will change again. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:42, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Now it's fine, only one issue write "Partition of Western Sahara, January 1976 - August 1979" into the legend. (Yes, I wrote that but the meaning was that you should only replace "control" by annexed in both entries).--Antemister (talk) 15:13, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
This time it is not about an annexation (Morocco had annexed the whole of Western Sahara in August 1979), but of territorial control, so depict the red area in the same style as Polisario territory in the previous map. The legend is "Territorial control in the Western Sahara, late 1979 - May 1981", the red area is described as "Area under Moroccon control (approximate)". Because Dakhla was also controlled by Morocco, the peninsula should also be red. As the map is still somewhat empty, I think it would make since to depict also the "useful triangle", i. e. the triangle Laayoune-Samara-Boucraa via a dashed line.--Antemister (talk) 19:41, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
No, displaying the useful triangle is not a good idea here (maybe an extra map for that, but there is currently no article about it). Upload the map without the triangle, description is "Map depicting the area under Moroccon control in the Western Sahara, late 1979 to May 1981, source is
Director of Central Intelligence: Western Sahara. Ramifications of Mauritanian Withdrawal and Moroccan Expansion (= Interagency Intelligence Memorandum. 79-10018). Central Intelligence Agency, August 1979 (PDF; 0,5 MB).
Done! Fine! Thanks! How did you draw the maps, QGIS?--Antemister (talk) 21:12, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister Inkscape, but I used QGIS to import-export the kmz to pdf and then Inkscape. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:49, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
The background of the question was the following: The development of these maps was a small part (one of the few difficult) of large project, tracking of all border changes worldwide back to about 1870 (up to now , the chronology is done until 1937). The dataset has some 700 entries so far, of which about a fifth are border changes in a narrow sense, the remaining secessions, annexations and name changes requiring no graphical work (only source code changes). The chronology should someday transferred first into a GIS model, then to editable XML-based maps which in turn can form the base for historical maps in the Wikipedia and also elsewhere.
It is likely that it too simply much (and too long-term) for a wikigraphist who is not deeply inside the matter. So I ask myself what to do with it? Learning QGIS on my own, an indian graphist... Is such a project feasible using a QGIS? How would you judge the time needed (per step)?--Antemister (talk) 05:43, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister Whow, that sounds like a big, long, never ending project.
I,m personally not very knowledgeable in QGIS (or GIS generally), it has been an idea with me to learn more about QGIS but so far I haven't achieved this. I really would like to do this so I could do work from datasets and create maps that way but there is a knowledge threshold which is not negligible, so I don't know if I will actually do this. In Inkscape I do most of the work in WYSIWYG mode and just some corrections etc in code mode. So it's mainly manual work I do, not from datasets, but there are graphic workers here with that type of knowledge.
From what you wrote above (to my understanding) this project seems like a typical datasets-GIS-automated workflow and that you need someone with much database, coding, automated GIS knowledge. If you are or can become this person is not for me to assess.
For a project like this (once again, to my understanding) it will be extremely important that guidelines, "rules", structures etc is set up and followed. As there will be different people (and changing) involved in such a project at commons or other wikimedia part this will be even more important.
Also it will be important to work in such a way that all the data, software, media exported etc from this project can adjust to the development of all included parts over time.
With my experience from working with maps here at commons I also would like to point out that A MAP is very seldom a clean specific entity, there are so many parameters involved in A MAP that it's often extremely hard to compare or combine it with another map and make them work perfectly together. As I work, mainly manually, I do the adjustments, corrections manually so that the end product will work in that scale and with accuracy enough to be viewed in 100%. This means the maps are not 100% accurate or comparable to most other maps but for it's purpose they work. When you work with databases, sets, automated workflow it's a completely different thing. Everything that comes out of it is just exactly what you put in, there is no hand, eye, softening a line or adjusting something else, no logical check if it seems fine.
This has of course both its pros and cons and with a large amount of data, maps you just have to accept this, set it up as good as you can and be aware of pros and cons.
German map place, which what I have heard is very good at creating maps, but of course there are more places and people with this typ of knowledge. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Ah, it seems your at least interested in it, so I continue writing. The whole issue is not new, I started the project around a decade ago, together with a now inactive German graphist. A handful of test maps were created, see Template:Historic world map series (they are test maps, so they still have some flaws), but then the project fell asleep until I reactivated it during two quarantines last year. That is the background of the Western Sahara issue - that topic had to be done before restarting the world map project as there had been no detailed maps of these walls before.
The original intention was to draw only low-scale worldmaps for using them as choropleth map. Of course a relevant project, thousands of such maps are used here. But in the meantime I realized that this scope is to narrow, for example maps or Europe are also needed. So I came to the idea that it should be done as a QGIS project rather than an Inkscape one, and done in a 1:1.000.000 scale (I guess the additional workload of drawing a border in 1:1.000.000 is low compared to doing the same in 1:50.000.000). The possible applications grow tremendously, it can be used as a base for locator maps of smaller countries, thematic maps and also for additional scientific purposes outside the Wikipedia. Since myself I don't have any GIS knowledge, I cannot judge even basic issues, i. e. if files from GIS and Inkscape can be interchanged easily, if it is possible to downscale high-scale to low-scale automatically, if XML-based maps can be drawn directly from QGIS, if you as a graphist can you boundaries that fit to others, if it is possible to edit a 1:1.000.000 world map in Inkscape alone etc...
In addition, I had developed a small tool for these kind of maps. It extracts from the map a the list of countries to a table, then you assign a color to it and then save it (can send it to you if you want). When it comes to coding, I can do a lot on my own, but when it comes to graphical work, I have no skills, that's why I asked.--Antemister (talk) 13:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
@Antemister This is so big (in my mind) that it's hard to imaging how just a handful of people can achieve this and it's an never ending project. It's admirable of you to start and work on this, really.
It seems as you are talking about many thousands of maps but how many of them do you calculate will be used, how many is there needs for?
What I think of is locator maps and how the German Kartenwerkstatt works with those. My German is not that good so I can't read a lot there easily but it seems like a typ of project/organisation you would need and I think you are from Germany, right.
I'm mostly interested in a lot of things and to learn new things but I'm also not very good in doing more or less the same thing for a longer time e.g. routine work, I get bored.
So depending of what you think I might or might not be interested in such a project but at this time I'm not interested to set it up and run it or part of it, it seems to big and a never ending thing, I think I would let you down on the path. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:18, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I have asked the German graphic lab once, but the reply the same: valuable project, but too large and too long-term, would block a graphist for too long. That's obvious, also clear for me, but I have tried again... How many of these maps will be used? Only a few, for some specific years (1938, 1949, 1960, 1975, 1989 for example), and this is to the point. My first idea was, let's create a handful maps for some important years, a manageable workload. But when I started the research, it came out, this is not possible if it you want to have correct boundaries. Such a series has to be created step by step, inflating the amount of work. So it's current status, stuck (regarding the graphic work, of course).
Anyway, I'll see what I'll do. So many hours of work went into the project and there is only the list which is itself valuable but I don't have anything "visual" up to now.
But would you be able to do some cleanup of one of the maps I linked so I can rollout my tool?
@Antemister So knowing about the enormously of this, what did you really think I as one person could do?
I haven't really understood the list, tool as to my understanding this was supposed to be run by DB, coding and GIS, so what did you think a hands on graphist could do for you.
But if you think I (as being the type of graphist I am) can help you with some maps I will try to help you with that, but please remember: not for the total project.
So start a "request" somewhere which is fine with you and explain to me what I need to know and I will try to help you. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 09:55, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
No worry, I did not expect a "yes" ;-) I just ask from time to time random people...
There are currently two other "difficult" ones (South Arabia and Caucasus, both in final stages of data collection), expected to be ready the next few months, and the mentioned base map. I'll come back to you then.--Antemister (talk) 21:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Lesotho Map Requests
Hiǃ Would you be interested in creating historical maps of pre-colonial Lesotho? The copyrighted maps are scattered in different books accessible on archive.org, you need a free account to view them. If you are up for it I will drop you the links. Thanks in advance. Catlemur (talk) 18:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@Catlemur I can do that if you will be here to help me in the work?
I don't know yet if I'm willing to open an account there, will see, if not you would have to provide me with screen prints. If the material is copyrighted we can only use it as information and not "copy" it. So get back to me with the material and sources that I need and what type of map you would like, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 19:24, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
ː̻@Goran tek-en: I screenshotted the maps and uploaded them to imgurː Lesotho after the Treaty of Thaba Bosiu (1866). If the screenshots are not good enough you can see the original pages hereː Becker and Thompson. I am not sure about the copyright status of the maps but I assume they are copyrighted.--Catlemur (talk) 20:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@Catlemur I'm a graphic worker and I do graphic work. It's up to you as the requester to search and find the sources and to check the copyright statues. It's just impossible for me to do that with all the different subjects and sources the different requestors provide. But for that site check [4] and [5] and then let me know. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 21:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
ː̻@Goran tek-en: I asked around and there is no copyright issue, since you will merely be drawing factual information from the maps instead of copying them stylistically.--Catlemur (talk) 10:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@Catlemur Always remember that I have zero knowledge of this subject so will have to be specific in what you want.
First we have to decide on which overall area the map should cover. Lesotho on OSM and could you draw a rectangle on this screen print and show me.
@Catlemur: I don't want to rush you but I need your help as above to be able to continue with your request, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:05, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
ː̻@Goran tek-en: I am sorry, I just started a new job and I am much shorter on free time now. I will message you again when/if everything is ready.--Catlemur (talk) 17:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@Catlemur Of course, we all have other things to do, get back to me when you have the time, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:40, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your contributions to Nguyễn Dynasty topics
Great Southern Barnstar
I just realised that I forgot to thank you for the tremendous work with that Bảo Đại period map of the Nguyễn Dynasty, especially since you were working with topics that you weren't familiar with. Whenever I see that map I just think of the thousands of people who will see your work without ever knowing who made it, but I know, and I'm grateful that you did. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:14, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@Donald Trung Thanks for that but it's almost always like that. I don't have any deeper knowledge about the topics I'm creating maps or illustrations for so I'm always very dependent on the requestors knowledge, like yourself so thanks for your knowledge. Those maps can only be created in cooperation which the world would need a little bit more of, unfortunately. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 11:01, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
A455bcd9 Thanks, I was actually thinking of this myself.
I saw there was some changes done in the Description/Legend part at File:Arabic_Varieties_Map.svg which I think is strange/wrong.
31 This should be a solid color as the hatched part is explained in other place. If you keep this you will have to change/add for all the hatched, round patterns also, so it should be a solid color here.
"Dotted area: speakers of this variety are widespread over the area" Should this not be "Dotted area: speakers of mixed varieties" --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:56, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi,
31: OK, fixed.
For plain/striped/dotted: I need to find a better definition, I'll try to find something looking at the sources...
Here, Adam said: "6 and 9's overlap is done differently than any other overlap". I can't see the difference, is there one? A455bcd9 (talk) 12:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
6-9, it might be because the light green makes it harder to see the dots (in 100%) so it's mistaken for lines. A solution is to try to find another color for the light green but it's tricky with consideration of color deficiency.
31 Yes the hatches are thinner and closer to be visible within each area, if we will use the original hatching we will have to do the inset I proposed before.
Regarding the legend: I changed the definitions of solid, hatched, and dotted based on Ethnologue's guidelines for maps ("we typically use the convention of showing a language in an area if at least 25% of the population in that area speak the language fluently as an L1. However, a minority language may be shown on a map even if the speakers do not comprise more than 25% of the population in any given area. This exception is made when the minority language is indigenous to that area only or, when there is historical significance for the language in that region.") and for locations ("Languages that are widely dispersed in specific locations or which are used by nomadic groups, are identified as “Scattered.”"). Ethnologue uses the term "Dispersed" for Hassaniya in Senegal and Nubi in Uganda, and "scattered" for Ta’izzi-Adeni Spoken in Djibouti. OK for you? A455bcd9 (talk) 13:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
@A455bcd9 This part with definitions is out of my knowlege as a graphic worker and is totally up to you. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:26, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi, I've just added notes (not all of them): what do you think? is it useful? If yes => I'll add them all. If not => I'll remove them all. A455bcd9 (talk) 12:35, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
@A455bcd9 What I know ImageNotes only work at commons and the page of the image Arabic Varieties Map but there they can be very useful. So if you like it it's fine with me, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
OK I'll add them all then, thanks. A455bcd9 (talk) 14:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
This change is only about changing one line, so it should be easy and quick.
What do you say? Do you have the time to perform those changes? Veverve (talk) 17:42, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
@Veverve Sure I can do that. Regarding the names, do you need the year in the name, is it not enough in the Description? --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:06, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Thanks!
Yes, I will need the name in the file title. You will have to overwrite the current files, then ask for them to be renamed.
I will do the drafts right now. Veverve (talk) 18:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Text:
"1967"
"Macedonian Orthodox Church"
"16 May 2022"
"24 May 2022"
"June 2022"
"Autocephaly recognised by the Ecumenical Patriarchate"
On both maps, please change "Macedonian Orthodox Church – Ohrid Archbishopric" to "Macedonian Orthodox Church".
Could you move the following dates, beginning of lines and legends, to a few pixels to the right?
I have put a grey square and grey circles around those things that I asked to be moved, so that it is easier for you to find them: https://imgur.com/a/lqq3jld . Veverve (talk) 17:15, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
The buggy lines was my mistake, I forgot to switch of a support layer I use, you have great eyes. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:28, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Here: the names should be moved to the right; it must be changed to this
Veverve I unconsciously moved some lines which created many of the things you mentioned above, sorry for that.
I have now checked the whole timeline and compared to the others we have made so I hope I corrected them now.
To me the two dates are lined up and if I move them any closer it will be hard to distinguish them from each other.
Change "Serbian Orthodox Church (Patriarchate)", to "Serbian Orthodox Church (Patriarchate)"
Change "Bulgarian Orthodox Church (Patriarchate) (seat in Preslav until the 970s, seat in Ohrid since then)", to "Bulgarian Orthodox Church (Patriarchate) (seat in Preslav until the 970s, seat in Ohrid since that time)"
Change "Bulgarian Orthodox Church (Patriarchate) (seat in Sofia)", to "Bulgarian Orthodox Church (Patriarchate) (seat in Sofia)"
This is good! You can now upload those two timelines to replace the current files.
Then, please ask for the files to be renamed:
"File:Timeline of the History of the main autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Churches, E. Orthodox point of view (2021).svg", to "File:Timeline of the History of the main autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Churches, E. Orthodox point of view (2022).svg"
"File:Timeline of the main schisms from the Serbian Orthodox Church (second quarter of the 19th century to 2021).svg", to "File:Timeline of the main schisms from the Serbian Orthodox Church (second quarter of the 19th century to 2022).svg"
@Veverve Updated, you can ask for the renaming yourself, you know how to motivate it I don't, thanks. Done --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:27, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
What would you recommend? On the IUCN Red List website you can download "Range data - Polygons (SHP)" (shapefile) but I don't know how to open that file.
For Hadrami Arabic, I could just use your map, remove all other dialects and crop around the region I guess?
For Occitan dialects, is there a better way than just taking a free SVG background map of France and then adding a screenshot of that map on top of it (or this image) in transparency and manually draw lines on top of it and then fill the areas?
Do you have advice? Or a simple "how to" guide?
Best, A455bcd9 (talk) 20:00, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
@[[User:A455bcd9|A455bcd9] For now (I have the flu) I will just give you a shorter answer.
What I say here and otherwise is how I think about this subject, ask someone else and you will get a different answer.
There is no quick "how to" for this, it's a complex and never ending educational tripp you are embarking on.
There are so so many aspects and different parts of map making, creating illustrations, diagrams etc it's not just about drawing lines and coloring areas, that's the least part.
If you think I can help you on this trip I would be more than happy to do so. But it's impossible for me to just write down some short things that would really help you, it would be a couple of books.
You have reached out to me so I have to assume that you think I have some knowledge, experience that could help you, if so, I'm willing to share this with you.
But as I wrote above, I can't just write everything down, this has to be a two person agreement on working on this together in many different ways:
text
sending material
sharing screens
talking
for a longer time
etc etc
You might think that I'm taking this to seriously and sure, I could have sent you some links and forgot about it but that's not me.
So if you can agree on what I write here I would be more than happy help you out, but it would have to be something like this that we agree on, get back to me, thanks. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:19, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Yes I assume it's a long journey to become as good as you. I'd be more than happy to learn the ropes with you if you have some time.
Best, A455bcd9 (talk) 15:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
@A455bcd9 I think I have passed the worst but it's so boring to be sick.
I do have the time and I actually enjoy giving what I have learned and accumulated, that's how I learned most of what I know and then added on my own experience, knowledge on top of that.
I'm in GMT+1 time zon and I think it would be good if we exchanged emails, send me an email thru the "Email this user" on my user page, do you have a google account?
I know google is not what all use but I have come to the conclusion that the tools they have is great and what company doesn't keep tracks of us, it's hard to avoid. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:50, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Talk soon. A455bcd9 (talk) 15:51, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
@A455bcd9 I'm well enough to start this, when you have time. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:33, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: glad to hear you feel better! What about this Friday or next week? Feel free to email me if that's easier for you. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:45, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Done --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
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--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:14, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
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