Template talk:Copyright notes

Notes for party members

I would like to remove notes about countries which have entered a copyright treaty or agreement with the United State including Afghanistan, Kiribati, Sao Tome and Principe, Seychelles, Turkmenistan, and Tuvalu. Any opposition? 4nn1l2 (talk) 15:13, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

• Fully agree. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

   Done 4nn1l2 (talk) 09:56, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

What should we do due to the Marrakesh Treaty?

• Ethiopia: VIP Feb 2, 2021
• Marshall Islands: VIP May 8, 2019

@Aymatth2: The Circular 38A file also mentions this treaty, and entries of countries above are neither "unclear" nor "none", is this treaty also related to URAA? Currently this template includes Ethiopia but not Marshall Islands, should the first one be removed? Or the later one be added? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:53, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I do not think it is relevant. By signing the treaty, Ethiopia allows import and sale of braille books from the United States without regard to copyright status. But Ethiopia has not signed the Berne convention and has not signed a copyright treaty with the United States, So the United States does not recognize any copyright in Ethiopian works. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Aymatth2: Then I think Marshall Islands should be added, as COM:HIRTLE even mentions that works of that country are valid for this tag, but how to describe the note? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:08, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I am missing the point. The Marshall Islands are included in the list on this template. Their status is the same as Ethiopia. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:58, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

If you use {{copyright notes|Somalia}}, then the template shows the flag of Somalia and information about the copyright law of Somalia. If you use {{copyright notes|Marshall Islands}}, then you see an error message: "Marshall Islands" is not a valid parameter! --Stefan2 (talk) 12:02, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Go it. Fixed. See COM:Marshall Islands. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Wait, @4nn1l2: removed both again, is this meaning that Marrakesh Treaty is also URAA-related now? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I had removed them without noticing this discussion. If Marrakesh Treaty was not relevant, it would not be mentioned on http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ38a.pdf. Simple as that. 4nn1l2 (talk) 08:11, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I do not see the Marrakesh Treaty as being URAA-related. Signatories agree to remove copyright protection for braille copies. They do not also agree to respect copyright of works from other countries. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:26, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Maybe the text of the template should be changed ("Per U.S. Circ. 38a., the following countries are not a participant in the Berne Convention or any other treaty on copyright with the United States:"), because the USA has definitely some sort of copyright agreement with Ethiopia and Marshall Islands.

Not being a lawyer, I prefer to hear more voices from COM:VPC. 4nn1l2 (talk) 12:47, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

The wording is poor. Perhaps "Per U.S. Circ. 38a., the following countries are not participants in the Berne Convention or Universal Copyright Convention and do not have any agreement with the United States to respect each other's copyright". Aymatth2 (talk) 13:24, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Continued at COM:VPC#Can URAA protection also apply to works in Ethiopia and Marshall Islands?. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:33, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

East Timor

I noticed that there has been a bit of back and forth editing regarding East Timor. Previously this text read:

East Timor has not yet adopted any copyright laws since its independence in 2002. For works completed before 2002, the copyright laws during Indonesian or Portuguese colonization eras apply, for those after 2002, we assume that Indonesian law as of 1999 applies.

@Zoozaz1: would prefer:

East Timor has not yet adopted any copyright laws since its independence in 2002. For works completed before 1999, the copyright laws during Indonesian or Portuguese colonization eras apply, for those after 2002, we assume that Indonesian law as of 1999 applies.

Zoozaz1 offers The Main Characteristics of the Timorese Legal System – a Practical Guide as reference for his change. A full text version of this journal article is available via Nomos eLibrary. The relevant portions of the article appear to be:

"On 20 May 2002, Timor-Leste became an independent country." pg 175

"UNTAET established that the Indonesian laws that were applied in the country before 25 October 1999 would stay in force until they were replaced by new UNTAET regulations (Art 3.1 of UNTAET Regulation No. 1999/1)." pg 176

"Some confusion regarding applicable legislation emerged in 2003, when a decision of the Court of Appeal interpreted that Art. 165 of the Constitution and Art. 1 of Law 2/2002 referred to Portuguese legislation in force before 25 October 1999, not to Indonesian legislation." pg 177

"In response, parliament approved Law 10/2003, which established an authentic interpretation of Art 165 of the Constitution and Law 2/2002, clarifying that Indonesian law de facto in force in Timor-Leste before 25 October 1999, together with the UNTAET regulations, was applicable. Law 10/2003 clarified the legislation applicable since independence, but other questions remained unanswered: which legislation should be considered to have been applicable during the period of the Indonesian occupation? " pg 177-178

"But regardless of this doubt, the courts’ decisions and the legal practice has stabilised in considering the Indonesian legislation the subsidiary law of Timor-Leste. In other words, when a specific topic is not regulated by Timorese legislation, the UNTAET regulations, and the Indonesian law applied before 25 October 1999 and not repealed by UNTAET regulations, are applicable, if not contrary to the Timorese Constitution." pg 178

Using those excerpts from the journal article, I assume Zoozaz1 wants the text in the template to reflect an ambiguity about which laws should apply from 1999-2002 (i.e. Portuguese or Indonesian). I'm inclined to go with the last quote above which suggests that 1999-2002 should use Indonesian law. —RP88 (talk) 00:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the period from 1999-2002 is ambiguous as you found with the second to last quote. I think the last quote is for a more general sense "regardless of this doubt," specifically for the period after 2002. Ideally, I would prefer the template to state that the period from 1999-2002 is ambiguous, state that the Indonesian copyright law as of 1999 may apply during that time, and keep the rest unchanged. Zoozaz1 (talk) 00:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I have no objections to expanding the note to reflect the ambiguity, although we should wait to see if Jeff G. has any comments. Maybe something like:

East Timor has not yet adopted any copyright laws since its independence in 2002. For works completed before 1999, the copyright laws during Indonesian or Portuguese colonization eras apply, for those after 2002, we assume that Indonesian law as of 1999 applies. Which law applies from 1999-2002 is ambiguous, but we assume that Indonesian law as of 1999 applies.

—RP88 (talk) 00:23, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

That seems good. Zoozaz1 (talk) 00:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@RP88: That works for me.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 12:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I've updated Template:Copyright notes/en to use the above text. —RP88 (talk) 00:10, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

@RP88 and Zoozaz1: as of now Timor-Leste has adopted its very first copyright law (COM:East Timor). Luckily, they implemented FoP (not following Indonesian path). Unsure if the country has entered some copyright treaty with the U.S.. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 03:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Excellent news. Zoozaz1 (talk) 05:29, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

The 11/2023 update to U.S. Copyright Circular 38A (International Copyright Relations of the United States) says that, as of October 2023, Timor Leste has not entered into a bilateral copyright agreement with the U.S., nor has it officially joined one of the multi-party international copyright treaties (Berne, etc.). —RP88 (talk) 09:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Timor-Leste's accession to the WTO JUST got approved (along with Comoros which is already a member of the Berne Convention), although it is still not listed as a member yet. TL will become a WTO member 30 days after their accession. So the earliest accession date (and URAA restoration date) is March 28, 2024. VTSGsRock (talk) 04:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)