Template talk:ANEFO photographer location

 

Please adjust template because of Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/09/Category:Historical images

@Andy Dingley, Would you please adjust this template? Categories starting with "Historical images of" or "Historical photographs of" are no longer allowed, see Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/09/Category:Historical images. I am adjusting categories of the Netherlands, but I cannot move categories about ANEFO photographs to the new categories because of this template. See for instance Category:Historical images of Marken. And the template is too complex for me to make the changes myself. JopkeB (talk) 08:44, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

• What do you mean by "not allowed" ? There's a CfD there, indeed, yet we still have huge numbers of these: Category:Historical images of the Netherlands by city. Relatively few for the Netherlands too, just look at Italy in comparison Category:Historical images of Italy by city. Now you're using a 4 year old CfD to justify bulk removals, but just so as to make the Netherlands different from other countries?

Also I'm concerned at the behavioural aspects of this. If anyone disagrees, will we see Roy17 once again simply listing all their uploads for deletion as a way to bully any dissent? It's their regular technique.

You say that these categories are being "adjusted", but it's unclear what that entails. Are they being deleted? Replaced? What with? These categories are significantly in use (and valuable) and whilst a vague "historical" is far from ideal, it's not a grouping that should simply be thrown away.

As to the template here, then I don't think it needs any change (bug fixes apart, I know it's still not perfect). See Template:ANEFO photographer location/doc#Categorization. It uses a list of potential category names, including these, and will link to whatever is available and best preferred. It's automatically robust against changing the categorization structure. Just change the categorization, the template will catch up (although Commons' caching policies can sometimes make that a little creaky).

If you want to change the linked categories, then start by changing that list. Give a new version of it (on this page), with ordering, and I can implement that. But "I'm going to delete all the in-use categories for one country and not replace them" is too vague a change to try and keep up with. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

• The CfD dates indeed from 4 years ago, but the closing of it was only a month ago.
• No, I do not want to make the Netherlands different form other countries. I read in the closing statement that historical categories for all countries should be adjusted. I do the part about the Netherlands
• I am confused and do not understand: the discussion was closed, but you now question the outcome. Usually we accept an outcome of a discussion and implement it, OR start a new discussion. So I just go on.
• About the template: I'll look into that and see what changes in that list are necessary and let you know here.
• No, I did not say that "I'm going to delete all the in-use categories for one country and not replace them". I do the changes carefully.

JopkeB (talk) 16:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

This is CfD. No-one cares. No one will implement any agreed change, mostly because there is never any sort of consensus for it. A scant handful of editors will bother at most, those who were most active in the category tree won't even know it's happening because there's no useful notification. Any CfD open for this many years (years!) should be closed as "no interest" automatically.

The main problem is that this tree is huge, and so no useful change can be made to it. We have no mechanism for doing that. Maybe you're motivated to do the Netherlands, but who's going to do Italy? The the Germans will insist on doing something different. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:24, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I am sorry you have such a cynical view on Commons. I might be one of the scant handful of editors that will bother in these kind of cases and I go on.

Question: the conversion of the categories and files is custom work. It might mean a lot of work to inventorize the changes for the list. Instead I'd rather remove the template from a category if it causes problems and has no nav bar, and

1. replace it by the old and new parent categories, including the hidden ones
2. insert the description.

Would that be OK with you? I think that the categories with a nav bar do in general not cause problems in the conversion, because they have no direct category with a "Historical" parent. JopkeB (talk) 04:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

• You're going to remove 12 thousand uses of a template, just to make more work for everyone? Andy Dingley (talk) 18:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

• Is moving from names like "Historical photographs of Twente" to "Category:History of Twente" really that big an improvement? Andy Dingley (talk) 16:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Job has been done; please adjust template now

Andy Dingley: My job has almost been done to get rid of categories with "historical images of the Neterlands" in the category name. But two templates throw a spanner in the works, this template is one of them. It is about the subcategories starting with "Photographs by" of Category:Historical images of the Netherlands by city, click to see the subcategories that still get this category as a parent because of this template. This category should be empty. All these subcategories have got proper parent categories, but this template add still this category (now in red) to them, which is redundant, because they all have other proper parents.

So again my request is: Will you now please adjust this template so that these subcategories will not get Category:Historical photographs of the Netherlands anymore as a parent? --JopkeB (talk) 08:22, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

The template has been adjusted by RZuo. Thank you very much! The subcategories that were still in Category:Historical images of the Netherlands by city, have been gone now too, just as I wanted. --JopkeB (talk) 02:42, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

What to do when the template does not work well?

I want to get rid of the three Categories:Photographs by Loek Tangel in IJsselstein on Category:IJsselstein and move them to the newly made Category:History of IJsselstein. I saw in the template that "History" has a higher priority then location, but still, even after a lot of hard purges, these three categories will not move the way I want to. What should be done to change the parent category? JopkeB (talk) 08:54, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi @JopkeB: , I noticed a similar problem in Category:Bussum, that the Category:Photographs by Hans van Dijk in Bussum (1981) kept popping up there after the Category:1981 in Bussum was created. I manually removed the whole template, see here but there must be a better solution here. -- Mdd (talk) 11:52, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

That is what I would also like to do: to remove the template from categories where it gives trouble and replace it with the correct parents. But I am always afraid that that might cause other problems... Though it is tempting, especially if you do not get an answer after three weeks. JopkeB (talk) 15:41, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Well Jopke, you'll do what you always do – ignore any discussion and trash it how you like anyway.

(It may have slipped your attention, but some of us are sometimes busy off-wiki.) Andy Dingley (talk) 17:41, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

User:Andy Dingley:

1. What discussion do you mean?
2. What did I trash?
3. How can this problem be solved? Apparently I am not the only one who is dealing with this problem.

JopkeB (talk) 03:56, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Since there was not only no action after three weeks, but neither after three months, I followed the example of Mdd and removed the template and added correct categories. JopkeB (talk) 08:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Eric Koch in Bergen, Norway

Category:Photographs by Eric Koch in Bergen (1965) ends up in Norway, due to Category:Bergen by year redirecting to Category:Bergen, Norway by year. Enhancing999 (talk) 10:58, 5 June 2024 (UTC)