Commons:Deletion requests/Template:PD-MNGov
This deletion debate is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.
Image:Minnesota state seal.png- Image:Minneapolis I-35W bridge map.svg
- Image:Minneapolis I-35W map1.JPG
The quoted statute is a public records law facilitating public access to records. It does not say they are in the "public domain", merely that they are "public", ie a member of the public can get a copy of them. A copy of such a record may still be copyrighted, and unless the state specifically disclaimed the rights, the license would still have reserved rights (most probably commercial use (other than publication) and derivative works would still be outlawed.) -Nard 19:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Agree; delete. --NE2 20:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Unfortunately (as discussed at Commons talk:Licensing#Minnesota Public Domain) and to my chagrin, as I set this template up hastily this morning to support Wikinews activity based on the reference the original uploader gave, I think N is correct, and the template (which I created) makes an invalid claim, and needs to go. (at least this opinion which User:Clindberg found shows that the state feels that way)... I was drawing an invalid parallel with {{PD-FLGov}} which makes a similar assertion. As to the images covered by it, the maps would need to be recreated without copying. Map information is not copyrightable, only specific representations. It would be really nifty if someone could do so quickly, as those maps are being used in a breaking story on Wikinews. The seal however may not actually be copyrightable, check out many of the seals in category:State seals of the United States which all seem to assert that seals are PD. ++Lar: t/c 20:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Most of the seals come from a US embassy website, and are PD since they are done by the USGov State Department. We could upload the Minnesota seal from this page as an alternative to the one here. There seems to be a special {{US state seal}} template used to source seals from that site. Getting a particular bitmap of a seal from the state's website may not be OK but that one should be. Carl Lindberg 00:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- We could replace the image of the seal with the one from the US embassy, and change the license on the seal. The rest have to go though, unfortunately. ++Lar: t/c 14:48, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Did this, see below. ++Lar: t/c 00:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
- We could replace the image of the seal with the one from the US embassy, and change the license on the seal. The rest have to go though, unfortunately. ++Lar: t/c 14:48, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Most of the seals come from a US embassy website, and are PD since they are done by the USGov State Department. We could upload the Minnesota seal from this page as an alternative to the one here. There seems to be a special {{US state seal}} template used to source seals from that site. Getting a particular bitmap of a seal from the state's website may not be OK but that one should be. Carl Lindberg 00:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- Keep: Read the agreement. They are DOT which is a US government agency. DragonFire1024 20:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- No, they're a Minnesota state agency. --NE2 22:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Each state has their own DOT (in this case, Mn/DOT), which is separate from the U.S. Department of Transportation, and thus their works are not necessarily public domain (unless there is a state law about it). Their websites seem to have copyright notices on them. Carl Lindberg 00:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Delete There's even a note from the state AG explicitly stating that works of the state are copyrighted. grendel|khan 21:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Keep the media files. This deletion request is incorrect, because the deletion of a licence template don't involve the deletion of any file with this licence template. The licence template have to be deleted in first, and only in that case, deletion templates can be added to the files without proper template. --Juiced lemon 11:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- The license template is invalid. It's not a valid claim of a license (I realise that now, on further investigation). Therefore the template needs to go, it's not useful and could be confusing or misleading. Also, anything licensed under it does not have a valid license and is also subject to deletion unless a different license can be shown to apply. But these are all works of the MN state government which asserts copyright and does not provide a free license. So they're all deletion bait too. ++Lar: t/c 14:48, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Agree to Juiced lemon - Not sufficient reason for deleting the media files. --FSHL 17:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- If you think the files have some sort of valid license attached to them, please re-tag them as necessary. If they have no license--as they won't after this deletion request goes through--then they'll be fair game for deletion. Did you see something that's allowable under some other license somewhere? grendel|khan 19:45, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I have taken Carl's suggestion and went to the US embassy to de: site and replaced the state seal with the one from there. Therefore I removed the deletion tagging from Image:Minnesota state seal.png as it no longer is licensed under the license we are discussing. ++Lar: t/c 00:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
- Cool. I changed the license to {{PD-USGov-DOS}} since that is more accurate (I don't think PD-US applies), and also added the {{US state seal}} template as that seems used for images sourced from that site. We may want to delete the old revision of the seal, the one that came from the Minnesota state website. As to the other images, this template was created to formalize the reasoning used to upload the two images in the first place; if the template is invalid (and without a court decision saying otherwise, I think it is) then the two images aren't valid either, so it seems reasonable to consider them as a group. Carl Lindberg 18:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
It seems pretty clear to me that this material needs to be deleted. It has been over 7 days since the discussion started, and I am the original creator of the template. The two affected maps are no longer used on english Wikinews so are ok to delete without impacting a breaking story... (They are used on other wikis so will need replacing...) Close debate and I will delete all remaining items: {{PD-MNGov}}, Image:Minneapolis I-35W bridge map.svg, Image:Minneapolis I-35W map1.JPG ( Image:Minnesota state seal.png was reuploaded and correctly licensed so is kept) ++Lar: t/c 00:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Later note (copied from the template talk page): --MichaelMaggs 16:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
A previous version of this template was deleted based on a discussion here: Commons:Deletion requests/Template:PD-MNGov ... which concluded that there was no PD for Minnesota goverment works. Subsequently a diligent user discovered a direct statement that makes all MN works PD unless explicitly stated otherwise. Yaay! ++Lar: t/c 00:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)