Commons:Deletion requests/Screenshots from French President Charles De Gaulle and the Six-Year War

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Screenshots from French President Charles De Gaulle and the Six-Year War

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Screenshots from the documentary President Charles De Gaulle and the Six-Year War. We have absolutely no proof that the people holding the camera were employees of the US government -- and I even strongly suspect that they were not; in these conditions, the chain leading to the release into the public domain breaks somewhere between the shooting of the footage and the assembly into a Public Domain documentary. The National Archives do not host only Public Domain material, but also copyrighter material; this is likely one of these. --Rama (talk) 22:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Delete Rama (talk) 22:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Delete The NARA page itself says there are possible use restrictions -- "Some or all of this material may be restricted by copyright or other intellectual property right restrictions." They do not do that if authored by a US Government employee (since in that case there are no use restrictions). So per the original source, this is not PD (or at least, definitely not PD-USGov, so that tag cannot be used). Looks like someone made an incorrect assumption when uploading a copy to the unrelated archive.org and labeled it PD there, which is most likely not correct. Carl Lindberg (talk) 03:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Most of the footage included in this uncopyrighted US documentary is older than 50 years, so free according to COM:L#Algeria. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 06:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Irrelevant. Algeria did not exist as a State at the time. French law applies. Rama (talk) 06:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Algeria would disagree, and Commons should not care what the French think about this. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Why should it care more about what "the Algerians" think of it than what "the French" (?) think of it?
    We know nothing of the author of these images. He could very well have been a French reporter whose footage were published in France. You are just trying, once again, to wish something into the Public Domain. Rama (talk) 07:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wouldn't call it irrelevant, if it was first published in Algeria. But we would need some evidence of that. Watching parts of the newsreel, it was produced in English by "United Press Movietone News". The narrator has an American accent. Reading w:Movietone News, they produced stuff for the US, UK, and Australia. Also see w:United Press International Television News. I did not see a copyright notice in the parts I watched (neither on the title screens nor at the end). There are entities which license Movietone's stuff apparently, but if at least simultaneously published in the U.S., it may well be out of copyright there (and would require a renewal as well). More "interesting" than it first looked, although PD-USGov is not a valid tag and cannot be used. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi, these screenshots were made by me from an US public domain video produced by the CIA and found on the archive dot org website [1]. the location is french republic because at this time algeria consisted of french departments much like today is corsica. what is the real issue with this material? what i read is "no right reserved", "creative commons", "public domain", "NARA" and "donation". Rama is nitpicking IMHO. Madame Grinderche (talk) 22:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Unfortunately the documentation you saw at the archive.org site is not correct, so you were misled into uploading them. It was produced by a private company (not the CIA), thus it is not a work of the U.S. government. The copyrights from that company are held by different companies today, it seems. They produced material for the US, UK, and Australia... if this was published in all three places, it would still be under copyright in Australia and the UK I would think, and the US would ride on whether it had a copyright notice and it was renewed. But, we don't know precisely where this version came from -- if the US Government got this copy from a UK showing, then lack of copyright notice may not mean anything. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:38, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also i'd like to point out that the file list's tense cease fire.ogg which was also uploaded by me has nothing to do with this documentary since it is coming from a public domain newsreel also from archive dot org. check the file's description for details please. also can't you use the "ARC Identifier 649319 / Local Identifier 263.1923" to contact the NARA and ask them if this de gaulle and the six year war documentary is really in the public domain or not instead of beating around the bush? thanks. Madame Grinderche (talk) 15:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • NARA's page explicitly states that it may still be under copyright -- why ask them when they already say that? It is not a work of the U.S. Government, so it is not PD via that avenue. As for File:Algeria_tense_cease_fire.ogg, yes, that is a completely different source, so the above discussion does not apply to it. Apparently Universal donated its library of newsreels to the National Archives in the 1970s. I haven't found any note about whether there are donor restrictions, which NARA allows but usually mentions if they exist. The top-level collection info is here; There are four main sub-collections under that (Newsreel Films, Outtakes, Edited Motion Picture Releases, and Production Files). Of those, the first three are marked "Restricted -- Possibly Copyright", while the last one is marked "Unrestricted". I think I found the source of this one with ARC identifier 2050474; it is also marked as "Restricted -- Possibly Copyright" (as it is part of the Edited Motion Picture Releases collection). Less sure about this one, as there clearly was a donation (and it's possible that lack of copyright notice may have placed them in the public domain first). However, NARA does not state they are public domain either. It would have also needed a renewal in 1989 or 1990, which would have been odd for something they had donated away, and I can't find it with a brief search at www.copyright.gov (and the record would be online there if it existed). However, again, PD-USGov cannot be used as a license tag. I may support that one as {{PD-US-not renewed}} or maybe {{PD-US-no notice}}. The archive.org collection page does state they were donated to the public domain, though I can't find a similar statement on NARA's site. If we go with that, we would use either PD-author or create a special tag for this collection. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:21, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted. Jcb (talk) 23:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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