Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Altman

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files uploaded by Altman (talk · contribs)

Every single one of these photos was uploaded to Flickr by cohærence * but contains a completely different attribution line to someone else claiming that they gave them permission. That is not how this works. This uploader needs to be blacklisted and every single one of these photos needs OTRS confirmed permission from the actual copyright holder. Not from a third-party.

Majora (talk) 23:40, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

— Hi Majora,

Thanks for the heads-up. WP:AGF Wikipedia:Assume good faith. The Template:OTRS_pending tag didn't take during batch processing. I've gone back through and done it manually. The uploader is in order, as are the uploads.The files were uploaded upon request of the copyright holder. An email has been sent to OTRS for processing.

The same thing happened last week with files File:Keynote Overview – The Future of Spaceflight – Christopher Altman (2).png and File:Keynote Overview – The Future of Spaceflight – Christopher Altman (1).png. As you can verify OTRS has been processed and licensing confirmed as per requirements.

— Altman (talk) 06:25, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't Wikipedia. Don't use Wikipedia links. And there is no good faith when someone obviously uses Flickr incorrectly. We have far too many license launderers to deal with that nonsense. The Flickr user has been blacklisted and will remain so as they cannot be trusted. This was a clear cut case of, they didn't own the copyright. We do not take people's word for it. Second, putting three or four instances of of the OTRS pending template on every page only increases the work for my fellow OTRS agents. It's not cool. Third, the two images mentioned you took from a presentation. These you took from a third-party Flickr account. There is a different there. The presentation came from the direct source. These did not. --Majora (talk) 06:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't license laundering. The files were uploaded on request of the copyright holder. Your statement 'as they cannot be trusted' is entirely presumptuous and false. This shouldn't be an 'assume first, ask questions later' scenario; you could have pinged me to ask instead of haphazardly throwing up the deletion tag. OTRS licensing will confirm the files are in order. These are not from a third-party Flickr account, the files were directly given to me by copyright holders for the express reason to upload them here. I happen to be the Flickr account in question. Misunderstanding upload parameters when OTRS is indeed pending is a simple mistake, not something to get up in arms about.

On a personal note that may grant some context: the keynote presentation is mine. It was conducted together with Kenji Williams and Bella Gaia, who asked me to upload the files.

— Altman ([User talk:Altman|talk]) 06:49, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not up in arms and copyright is definitely something that you should deal with immediately. It isn't something that you "ping" and then hope that something comes from it. If you are uploading any material that isn't yours. Any material that you yourself did not physically click the button on the camera you should have the copyright holder contact OTRS. Unless everyone else can also confirm, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the image is under a free license. Obviously, we didn't have contact with whomever those images belong to. This is to protect their rights and I will protect the rights of copyright holders for every image I come across. And the Flickr account is not being removed from the blacklist. It just isn't going to happen after this. The account cannot be trusted to be accurate for license reviewing purposes. As a side, note please stop marking edits that add hundreds of bytes of data as minor. They are not minor edits. --Majora (talk) 07:04, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

— According to instructions on Commons:OTRS it's perfectly acceptable to upload copyrighted images with an OTRS-pending tag. No intentional policy violation occurred. Furthermore they aren't even copyrighted, but licensed under CC 4.0.

I have received permission from the original author (not me) to upload the file to Commons. Please ask the copyright holder to send a permission statement to the address listed above. We require that owners make a clear statement that they release the image under a free license. To help prevent confusion or misunderstandings we prefer one of the email templates be used. Permission grants must specifically contain a free license grant and may not merely give permissions for Commons or Wikipedia. If you have already uploaded the image to Commons, follow the instructions on Template:OTRS pending.

What did happen is the batch OTRS-pending tag wasn't attached in the course of my upload as intended. I'm not suggesting that you contacted Kenji. I'm stating that I did. He as the originating copyright holder personally asked me to upload these files, some of which are sourced from me personally and from my presentation. I'm not some 'license launderer.' I'm the subject of some of the material, together with Kenji as the copyright holder who asked me to upload the files, and his musical group. I uploaded the files as per his request only after sending him the 'How to' OTRS permissions email, which is the same procedure we used last week with my keynote, for which no violation was implied nor censure suggested.

— Altman (talk) 07:28, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I just noticed the editor defaults to minor edit. Updated as per request. Altman (talk) 07:29, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, and uploader should delete Flickr account where license laundering occurred in good faith. With proper source indicated and OTRS tickets attached, the files may remain on Commons. Ariadacapo (talk) 13:58, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Files uploaded by Altman (talk · contribs)

Unless I misunderstood, User:Altman is Christopher Altman, the subject of the photos. He unlikely is both author and subject, though all those images are tagged as own work. Some clarification of source and evidence of licensing are needed here.

Ariadacapo (talk) 14:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Jcb (talk) 23:35, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following have been restored per OTRS Ticket:2018020410005487:

De728631 (talk) 03:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files uploaded by Altman

* File:Keynote Overview – The Future of Spaceflight – Christopher Altman (1).png (edit: erroneous request)

As for the second batch of uploads nominated above, these images were all uploaded as own work by User:Altman who identifies as Christopher Altman, the subject of the photos. I doubt these are all self-portraits, and so proper source/permission should be given. Ariadacapo (talk) 08:54, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've been an avid hobbyist photographer for years; I'm partial to the Nikon DSLR series. I've been through several low-aperture f/1.2-4 portrait, zoom and telephoto lenses, tripods, shutter remotes, etc. I've been offered contracts to work professionally—in my last two research fellowships I doubled as the official photographer—though I'm too dedicated to my primary path to ever consider such a change. My sister shares the same passion—though she's partial to Canon—and her work has featured in magazines, professional exhibits and received awards. A few examples are available on Flickr.

All but a few of my uploads were taken on my camera, with me doing hardware selection and setup, calibrating aperture and exposure, conducting pre- and post-processing, making any later corrections or adjustments on my computer in Photoshop, Aperture, etc. When my fiancée, in the course of documenting travel, training or adventures, so happened to click the shutter for a particular request, she didn't ever consider the results 'hers' for the aforementioned reasons. They were taken for the specific purpose of documentation. Hence the photos were uploaded as “own work,” and we certainly thought of it that way.

Until we read the “three-headed dog” story on Majora's Talk page, we inferred the above rationale granted me ownership. But copyright law doesn't always coincide with common sense—or does it?

Reddit Photography: The person who takes the photo owns the rights. Copyrights should go to the creator of the work, it doesn't matter who owns the tools.
[Yet] There are other situations, for instance, when a photographer sets up a shot but asks his assistant to push the shutter button.
In that case the photographer—not the assistant—owns the rights because it is his or her creative output.

Whereas we're now aware of the possibility of a discrepancy, we haven't yet been informed as to the specifics or the potential courses of action. Where is the line drawn in the latter description above?

Is the conservative procedure (a) to take the photos down and for her to upload them through her own account, (b) to transfer the copyright to me, or (c) to send permissions via OTRS? The latter is not so out-of-the-way, so we sent the requisite documentation to permissions-commons

wikimedia.org on Monday, Jan 29th.

Please advise.

— Altman (talk) 10:55, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Altman: The standard procedure would be for the copyright holder to send in the required documentation to OTRS. We handle everything permission related through there. As for the "three-headed dog" comment. That was supposed to be in reference to en:On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog, a relatively common saying that boils down to "we don't take your word for it". I probably didn't phrase myself in the best way when I said that.

As for copyright law not always making sense, it really really doesn't. There is no "bystander" exception in US copyright law (other countries actually are ahead of the US in this regard and have modified their laws to include exceptions). So, since copyright attaches upon creation in the US and the US recognizes the person taking the photo as the one whose creative input deserves copyright it can often lead to a lot of confusion when we tell people that they don't actually own the copyright to their images. Since you sent in the documentation you should have received an automated email with a ticket number. If you want to give me that number I can take a look at the permissions. --Majora (talk) 01:50, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

– @Majora: Thanks. For general reference, how is Commons hosting affected by different national copyright laws, e.g. one that might incorporate a bystander clause? Many of my photos were taken outside the United States, for example. Also, how often are you tasked to address the following scenario?

"There are other situations, for instance, when a photographer sets up a shot but asks his assistant to push the shutter button. In that case the photographer—not the assistant—owns the rights because it is his or her creative output."

Mahalo nui loa,

— Altman (talk) 05:37, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

May we have similar authorization for remaining files File:Keynote Overview Effect.png, File:Keynote.png and File:Keynote (2).jpg please. Thank you. Ariadacapo (talk) 08:10, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ariadacapo: Roger Wilco. Forwarding now. When will the tag be removed from File:NASA_Quantum_Future_Technologies_Conference.jpg ; it's now properly sourced, correct? Thanks – Altman (talk) 10:24, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thank you for your cooperation. Ariadacapo (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ariadacapo: Thanks for clarifying policy; it makes things simpler around here.

@Majora: was File:Sailplane training Achmer field Germany.jpg intended to be restored as well? It was included in the permissions email. Thanks for help in restoring.

– Altman (talk) 20:32, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That one was in the last ticket I'm working on. There is a slight issue with the background image in two of them (File:Keynote Overview Effect.png and File:Keynote.png). It will probably have to be cropped out but I'm double checking. You can't take a photo of an image unless that image itself is also under an acceptable license. Since it creates a derivative work. Oh and I must have missed the last question. Sorry about that. China is an example of a country that has a sort of bystander law (not stated directly) that applies if the other person is truly anonymous. The catch is the anonymous nature of the person taking the photo. Article 13 of China's copyright law is in play in that situation. --Majora (talk) 21:26, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Majora: Thanks. That shouldn't be too hard because my keynote used looped video and imagery from Kenji Williams and Bella Gaia. Kenji already granted me lifetime licensing rights on his works; he sent an email to OTRS for the uploads I posted a couple of weeks back. Let me know if he needs to send another one for this specific purpose. Thanks — Altman (talk) 23:50, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ariadacapo: @Majora: With correct licensing information now received and OTRS in place, may the red tags be removed from the up-to-date licensed files, e.g. File:RSA_Information_Security_Award.jpg? Thanks for your help in getting these sorted. — Altman (talk) 16:19, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The closing admin has a script that does all that. No need to do it manually. --Majora (talk) 00:40, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: files now have valid OTRS permissions. --Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 23:31, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Altman

Files uploaded by Altman (talk · contribs)

Files uploaded by Altman (talk · contribs)

Files uploaded by Altman

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