Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:U-Bahnhof Rathaus Steglitz

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:U-Bahnhof Rathaus Steglitz

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Freedom of panorama does not apply to interior shots in Germany. Architect was Rainer G. Rümmler, who died in 2004.

Lukas Beck (talk) 14:38, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just for understanding for other users: Deleting the files mentioned would result in the deletion of a large number of the pictures of Berlin underground stations. According to the German Wikipedia entry, Rainer G. Rümmler was involved in the design of a total of 50 Berlin underground stations, i.e. more than a quarter of all Berlin underground stations. Personally, I think the request for deletion is exaggerated. Dasas (talk) 19:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, various factors play a role here. Not every subway station reaches the level of creation. And many Berlin underground stations are already old enough to be photographed without hesitation.
Just because these images have been tolerated to this day does not change German copyright law. --Lukas Beck (talk) 04:29, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There was never any mention of all underground stations in Germany. Despite all of this, Rainer G. Rümmler helped design 50 underground stations in Berlin. Which of these underground stations, in your opinion, achieved the level of creation? So far I've only seen one request for deletion from you, Germany-wide, but according to your argument it should certainly be more than just Rathaus Steglitz, shouldn't it? That's why I would ask you to submit a deletion request for all affected subway stations in Germany so that we can then talk about it in the overall context. Dasas (talk) 12:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
More subway stations will follow. Rathaus Steglitz is not the only train station that is affected.
However, the number of stations affected will not change the current German law. And we should live up to our responsibilities on Wikimedia Commons. Therefore, the nominated images should be deleted. Lukas Beck (talk) 13:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@L. Beck I'm sorry, but instead of singling out one Berlin Underground station, I'd ask you to bring that question to a more prominent, more seen talk page here on Commons to involve more opinions. Having clarified & confirmed this and consensus found, you can ask for a mass deletion of such photos (basically most photos Germany's underground stations and newer train stations). While I understand your interpretation, it would mean a radical policy change with huge impact on available media overall on Commons. Jcornelius (talk) 19:34, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Good morning @Jcornelius! Thank you for your input. I am also aware that in principle many deletion requests would follow here. And I'm not exactly thrilled either. But I'm still of the opinion that we have to accept that if we still want to take Commons seriously. We should adhere to the existing law to the best of our conscience. Warm greetings! Lukas Beck (talk) 04:59, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @L. Beck,
I agree with @Jcornelius in his statements. I too had already noted that so far only Rathaus Steglitz had seemingly been chosen "symbolically". I also think that the objection to have this question clarified/discussed at a higher level is clearly the more sensible option, regardless of the legal situation. Dasas (talk) 19:15, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @L. Beck! I don't what level of expertise you might have in legal matters in general, as well as regarding Freedom of Panorama in particular. From what I understood and know, the copyright law is not as clear as you're suggesting in your comments, and the case of underground stations is actually controversially discussed among legal scholars. However, I'm not an expert in this subject, but would kindly ask you to reach first broader consensus/get confirmation on this interpretation of the law before getting this examplery deletion request through (and leading to many, many more DR). -- Jcornelius (talk) 02:33, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Since users were suggesting a wider discussion, I started a thread at the village pump on the topic. Felix QW (talk) 17:07, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly object to the request of some to include images of other underground-stations into this DR. This would not ease the required discussion, but just obfuscate it. As the architect of this station is known, this DR can focus on the questions 1) does the image prominently depict something that is considered to be above threshold of originality (Schöpfungshöhe), and, more importantly, 2) is the Panoramafreiheit of the German copyright-law applicable here or is the legal condition "an öffentlichen Wegen, Straßen und Plätzen" not fulfilled. --Túrelio (talk) 10:30, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With regard to the above mentioned term "öffentlich" in the law, our own legal synopsis at de:Panoramafreiheit#Kriterium_„öffentlich“ states "Strittig ist die Bewertung von Aufnahmen in Örtlichkeiten wie Bahnhofs- oder Flughafenhallen und U-Bahn-Haltestellen", which doesn't really help. I've therefore invited our legal experts on de:WP:URF for participation. --Túrelio (talk) 10:34, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree in not extending the nomination, I also think it makes sense to discuss the freedom of panorama issue more widely; depending on the consensus reached, this could well lead to a change in COM:TOO Germany with consequences beyond this DR. The second point regarding threshold of originality should of course be discussed on a case-by-case basis, and here is absolutely the right place for it. Felix QW (talk) 11:49, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think input of Pajz (main author of German Wikipedia's article on FoP) could be really helpful here. If the conclusion is that there is no conclusive opinion in the legal literature ("strittig") for indoor photographs of copyrighted architecture in train/metro stations, COM:PCP could dictate that we have to delete the images (erring on the side of caution). Gestumblindi (talk) 18:49, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination and discussion. These photos do show imho the distinct design elements, such as yellow round elements on the ceiling, which is making the design above threshold. I have seen many U bahn stations, but none like these, so I think they are protected by copyright of the architect for many years to come (until 2075). . --Ellywa (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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