Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Secondo palazzo Montecatini (Milan)
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Unfortunately there's no FOP in Italy so buildings are copyrighted until at least 70 years after the architect's death. In this case the building seems to have been built by Gio Ponti, Eugenio Soncini, and Antonio Fornaroli. Ponti died in 1979, Soncini in 1993, and I couldn't find any information about when or if Fornaroli is dead but it clearly hasn't been for more then 70 years since the building was built in 1951. So these images are copyrighted until an as yet undernimmed date unless some can figure out when Fornaroli died.
- File:L go Donegani, 2 o pal Montecatini (anche Radio 105) (Ponti, Fornaroli, Soncini, 1947-51) LU03256.jpg
- File:Milano - largo Guido Donegani.jpg
_(Ponti,_Fornaroli,_Soncini,_1947-51)_LU03256.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1){kind=link}
Adamant1 (talk) 09:05, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Fornaroli was the engineer (see), so I don't think that we should take him into account, since the elements of artistic and urbanistic importance were almost certainly designed by Ponti. Friniate (talk) 13:18, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Engineer and artist from I read. I more included him because the later then former since it would have undoubtedly meant he was involved in designing the building. Although probably to a lesser degree then Ponti, but it doesn't matter. Although its not enginer aren't involved in the design proccess either. But regardless, even if he only designed 30 percent of the building and Ponti 60 he'd still be the copyright holder as the (possible) one out the three who lived the longest. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Well, here it says "In Antonio Fornaroli, Ponti had not only found a partner who was able to understand and execute his architectural projects". Although his role was clearly important, it doesn't indicate that he had a role in designing the projects. Friniate (talk) 14:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- BTW the link above shows also that Fornaroli was dead by April 2023. Friniate (talk) 14:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe it's just me, but I don't think one sentence from a random, anonymous written blog post qualifies as an authority about how much involvement he had in designing the building. The fact is that he's partially credited with it's creation and that's what matters. Determining who holds the copyright of joint authored work isn't a game of "who showed up to work the most." As to the rest, even if he was dead "by" April 2023 I think the un-deletion date has to be based on the actual year the person died. Not some random future date after the fact. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's the introduction of the catalogue of the goods of Fornaroli's house sold by his grandkids at auction, if any it should have increased Fornaroli's role. It was written by Salvatore Licitra, Gio Ponti's grandson and founder of the Gio Ponti Archives in Milan. I know that you are not used to read stuff, but this one was even in english, you could have made the effort... Friniate (talk) 15:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)'
- I actually did read it, earlier before you linked to it in this discussion. Along with other things about Fornaroli. Regardless, nothing in it conclusively stated how much of a role he played in the design of the building, or really talked about it at all, and the part of it that you quoted is just aspirational marketing. A relative of Ponti saying Fornaroli executed "his" plans is meaningless. Really, less then that since it could literally mean anything. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:42, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Found it, Fornaroli died in 1982: [1]. The undeletion date should be therefore 2074. Friniate (talk) 16:35, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
@Friniate: I assume you mean 2053?--Adamant1 (talk) 00:26, 14 November 2023 (UTC)- No, but 2074 was wrong anyway, thanks, I meant 2064 Friniate (talk) 10:26, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Found it, Fornaroli died in 1982: [1]. The undeletion date should be therefore 2074. Friniate (talk) 16:35, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- I actually did read it, earlier before you linked to it in this discussion. Along with other things about Fornaroli. Regardless, nothing in it conclusively stated how much of a role he played in the design of the building, or really talked about it at all, and the part of it that you quoted is just aspirational marketing. A relative of Ponti saying Fornaroli executed "his" plans is meaningless. Really, less then that since it could literally mean anything. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:42, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's the introduction of the catalogue of the goods of Fornaroli's house sold by his grandkids at auction, if any it should have increased Fornaroli's role. It was written by Salvatore Licitra, Gio Ponti's grandson and founder of the Gio Ponti Archives in Milan. I know that you are not used to read stuff, but this one was even in english, you could have made the effort... Friniate (talk) 15:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)'
- Maybe it's just me, but I don't think one sentence from a random, anonymous written blog post qualifies as an authority about how much involvement he had in designing the building. The fact is that he's partially credited with it's creation and that's what matters. Determining who holds the copyright of joint authored work isn't a game of "who showed up to work the most." As to the rest, even if he was dead "by" April 2023 I think the un-deletion date has to be based on the actual year the person died. Not some random future date after the fact. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- BTW the link above shows also that Fornaroli was dead by April 2023. Friniate (talk) 14:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Well, here it says "In Antonio Fornaroli, Ponti had not only found a partner who was able to understand and execute his architectural projects". Although his role was clearly important, it doesn't indicate that he had a role in designing the projects. Friniate (talk) 14:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Engineer and artist from I read. I more included him because the later then former since it would have undoubtedly meant he was involved in designing the building. Although probably to a lesser degree then Ponti, but it doesn't matter. Although its not enginer aren't involved in the design proccess either. But regardless, even if he only designed 30 percent of the building and Ponti 60 he'd still be the copyright holder as the (possible) one out the three who lived the longest. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
Deleted: per nomination, Undelete in 2064. --Abzeronow (talk) 21:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)