Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Polistil model cars

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Files in Category:Polistil model cars

Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 06:26, 3 March 2017 (UTC

I report what cstevencampbell said here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_Cstevencampbell "think it's about time to say that there are types of subjects that really are not appropriate for Wikipedia and are best treated elsewhere (books and other published outlets) where permissions are obtained or fair use is considered more broadly. Such a subject is perhaps all too specialized for Wikipedia anyway".
I personally think it's insane that wikipedia can't show images that a museum can (like this image taken from a museum site: File:Politoys - Alfa Romeo Guilia G.T.jpg) --Arosio Stefano (talk) 08:34, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. A mess made in heaven. No easy way out of it.

--Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 08:49, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I saved all the photo that you are deleting (and other photos already deleted by someone else) here: http://polistil.altervista.org/all-diecast-of-the-italian-company/ If wikimedia commons change his mind, we can recover the photos from this site.... :'-( --Arosio Stefano (talk) 09:29, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some clever elucubration by cstevencampbell.... (where can we put so everibody can see them?)

1. They are utilitarian. Toy cars produced in miniature, as extensions of the real cars they copy, are essentially utilitarian. Though they do not function like real machines, they normally exist as playthings, usually for children, which is a utilitarian function, just perhaps not an adult one. They also usually serve a promotional function as children playing with, for example, Chevrolets, are then encouraged to grow up and buy Chevrolets, a promotion of the automobile industry. An inherent truth in the business of toy cars, as seen in the fact that in many cases the real manufacturers would make in-house toy models for play to be distributed or sold to children (Hudson, Citroen, Alfa Romeo). This is a traditional purpose for toys which has existed at least since about 1930.

2. Replication of the real thing. Most toy and model makers in replicating real cars are not seeking the uniqueness of artistic representation. In fact, quite the opposite is true. When Matchbox makes a Mercedes-Benz C-Class sedan, its goal is the same as when Corgi Toys makes a C-Class sedan – to make, within the craftsman’s skills, the most accurate representation possible. The goal is normally the most accurate portrayal possible of the real car in miniature, not a unique artistic expression. In other words, the fact that one maker chooses to paint on rear lights while another manufacturer chooses tinted plastic lenses is not an effort to produce an artistic rendering - it is an attempt to replicate the real car as closely as possible – so adults and children will buy the ‘car of their dreams’, etc. Local choices in manufacturing serve only to transmit the idea of utilitarian function to the smaller replicated object. The goal is to recreate the real car, not artistically diverge from it. Over time, as manufacturing processes have become more precise, model manufacturers replicate the real car with greater and greater accuracy, thus emphasizing the real, usable, actual purpose of the object. The concept, of course, does not apply to Hot Rods, Customs or other fantastical creations (for instance by Mattel Hot Wheels) which do not replicate any real vehicle. These would be covered by copyright law. Attempts to recreate the real vehicle would not.

3. Licensing backs the idea of utilitarian function. Until the late 1980s, toy producers could recreate any vehicle they liked without paying royalties. After this, GM, Chrysler, Ford and other manufacturers required royalties of the toy manufacturers. This process resulted in two things. Fewer manufacturers who could afford the licensing and more precision replication in the toy or model as firms had closer contacts with blueprints and plans. This enhances the theme of utilitarian function in models. Auto companies want to maximize profits and protect their creations. Model manufacturers strive to make the most accurate representations of models possible – as much as possible, to recreate utilitarian and promotional function of the vehicles in miniature, thus the idea that different toy makers strive for uniqueness or artistic representation in their product is, at best, an imprecise argument.

4. Commercial exploitation generally does not apply. After the above, one might say, “Well there is always the possibility that images of these toys and models may be sold or used without due remuneration to the owners” - and this is a possibility, I suppose. Many, many books, from well-known publishers, though, discuss models of many kinds, from many companies and many different countries without direct permission from manufacturers. Most photos in a Wikipedia environment are examples, and, in any event, show only portions of vehicle or a car from one angle. To steal a design to develop a real car, one needs more sophisticated plans or blueprints than can be obtained from a picture or two.

--Arosio Stefano (talk) 14:21, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see the recreation of a real car as a toy as you do. A toy car, based on a real one, is more utilitarian than a unique creation made using imagination. In my book that is. The community decided otherwise in many instances before. Nothing we can do until that changes. :( Thanks for the rescue! --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 23:05, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

FYI: Cstevencampbell was responded to here and here; he was/is musing on what he wishes were so, not stating what actually is (i.e., this is not a refutation of models as copyrightable objects). Эlcobbola _talk 23:23, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete See User:Elcobbola/Models. Cstevencampbell's comments pasted above are nonsense. Эlcobbola _talk 23:23, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: These models have no other functions than to be pictorial, and not an utilitarian function as for a real vehicule. Christian Ferrer ^(talk) 06:34, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Polistil model cars

Files in Category:Polistil model cars

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