Commons:Deletion requests/File:Yuri Andropov - Soviet Life, August 1983.jpg
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
TASS image, not work by Embassy of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to the United States of America Patrick Rogel (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
- Photo is by TASS, but unlike most Soviet photos by TASS it was published in the Soviet life magazine, making it PD in the US on the URAA date. Not PD in country of origin right now though since this photo will be copyrighted under Russian copyright law until 2054.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 15:43, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
Keep. We already extensively discussed the issue of material from Soviet Life and whether it is under copyright; see for example Commons:Deletion requests/File:Anatoliy Solovianenko - Soviet Life, October 1984.jpg and Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2014/05#PD-US-1989-tagged images produced outside the US and Commons:Undeletion_requests/Archive/2014-05#File:Anatoliy Solovianenko - Soviet Life, October 1984.jpg. Such images have not survived deletion as there is good evidence to believe that they are in the public domain. —Psychonaut (talk) 18:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2014/05#PD-US-1989-tagged_images_produced_outside_the_US is a very different case because we know that this item was published in the USSR first (it's andropov's official portrait), but that case didn't have known Soviet publication date.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 19:18, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
- Before even thinking of templates tags, the question should be: since image has been published first in the U.R.S.S, especially in Pravda n ° 317 (23478) dated 13 November 1982, who is this Soviet photographer, when did he die (if ever) and where is his permission (or his heir's)? Second, same images from photo agencies are reproduced (often simultaneously) in different media of different counties: it doesn't mean they change of nationality once published. Third, Embassy of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to the United States of America is a Soviet territory within the U.S. so the Soviet Life 1983 publication is not covered by {{PD-US-1978-89}}. In short, Soviet work first published in Soviet Union and photographer's permission needed via COM:OTRS. --Patrick Rogel (talk) 08:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
- Your third claim (that embassies are extraterritorial to their host nations) is a common misconception; it has no basis in legal fact. Embassies in the US are still within American jurisdiction, even though the diplomats working there may enjoy immunity from prosecution. —Psychonaut (talk) 19:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
- It was not the core of the demonstration, just a remark by the way. --Patrick Rogel (talk) 23:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
- Found at https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualit%C3%A9/juri-andropow-vorsitzender-des-geheimdienstes-kgb-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/544632725?adppopup=true too. --Patrick Rogel (talk) 08:56, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
- Your third claim (that embassies are extraterritorial to their host nations) is a common misconception; it has no basis in legal fact. Embassies in the US are still within American jurisdiction, even though the diplomats working there may enjoy immunity from prosecution. —Psychonaut (talk) 19:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
- Before even thinking of templates tags, the question should be: since image has been published first in the U.R.S.S, especially in Pravda n ° 317 (23478) dated 13 November 1982, who is this Soviet photographer, when did he die (if ever) and where is his permission (or his heir's)? Second, same images from photo agencies are reproduced (often simultaneously) in different media of different counties: it doesn't mean they change of nationality once published. Third, Embassy of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to the United States of America is a Soviet territory within the U.S. so the Soviet Life 1983 publication is not covered by {{PD-US-1978-89}}. In short, Soviet work first published in Soviet Union and photographer's permission needed via COM:OTRS. --Patrick Rogel (talk) 08:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Kept: Closing as stale. Can be renominated without prejudice. --Pi.1415926535 (talk) 19:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Doubtful lincense, seems that copied from non-free sources https://riamediabank.ru/media/856255.html?query=%D1%8E%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%20%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2&selection=media&sort=date&order=desc&page=2&context=search or from here https://tassphoto.com/en/asset/fullTextSearch/search/%D1%8E%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9+%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2/page/2FlorianH76 (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Are we really going to do this yet again? See the previous discussions at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Yuri Andropov - Soviet Life, August 1983.jpg#File:Yuri Andropov - Soviet Life, August 1983.jpg, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Anatoliy Solovianenko - Soviet Life, October 1984.jpg, Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2014/05#PD-US-1989-tagged images produced outside the US, and Commons:Undeletion_requests/Archive/2014-05#File:Anatoliy Solovianenko - Soviet Life, October 1984.jpg. The image was not copied from the RIA Media Bank or the TASS website but rather (as the description clearly indicates) from an issue of Soviet Life whose entire contents are almost certainly in the public domain, at least in the US. For this deletion request to survive, we need new information concerning the original publication of the photograph (not its appearance in some online Russian media libraries 40 years later) and whether this conflicts (with respect to Commons' hosting policies) with the apparent PD status in the US. —Psychonaut (talk) 07:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- If this is a part of public newspaper the file must be uploaded only as a part of scan of this newspaper, not as original file of Andropov's photo which is not in the public domain according to the sources I mentioned before. All rights of the original photo now belong to the state media in Russia. FlorianH76 (talk) 15:13, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- This image (at least as I originally uploaded it) is a cropped version of a page from the scan of the original magazine (which is a separate file here on Commons), not "original file of Andropov's photo" (whatever that means). Could you please explain the legal reasoning behind your claim that all rights to the photo belong to Russian state media, particularly with respect to its copyright status in the US in light of its publication there, in 1983, without a copyright notice? Are you aware of an earlier publication in the US that did include a copyright notice, or of a registration of this photo in the US Copyright Office between 1983 and 1988? If so, please provide details so that we can verify them. If not, then it would seem that you are wrong, and that the photo can be presumed to be in the public domain in the US. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:18, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- But it is obvious that this file is not cropped version from the scan of File:Soviet Life, 1983-08, № 323.pdf, the uploaded photo is taken from another not free source. FlorianH76 (talk) 22:16, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- If that's the case, then the solution is not to delete the entire file, but rather to revert to the last version that is derived from the cropped version I originally uploaded and to request revdel of the infringing revisions only. But looking at the revision history, I don't think you're correct; it looks like all the changes (except one that has been revdelled for exactly the reason I describe) are incremental changes to my original scan. —Psychonaut (talk) 05:10, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Isn't the better version of the file considered as different image? Does the license cover all better versions of this file no matter where they are taken from? It's doubtful. FlorianH76 (talk) 13:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, it's not at all doubtful. If someone makes a derivative work of a public-domain image like this one, and their contribution crosses the threshold of originality, then they're free to license the resulting image as they see fit. So far every editor who has modified the image has either done so in a way that doesn't meet the threshold of originality, or else released their modifications into the public domain. All revisions of the file (except for the possibly infringing one that was revision-deleted) are therefore in the public domain. —Psychonaut (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- OK, you've convinced me. FlorianH76 (talk) 00:15, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, it's not at all doubtful. If someone makes a derivative work of a public-domain image like this one, and their contribution crosses the threshold of originality, then they're free to license the resulting image as they see fit. So far every editor who has modified the image has either done so in a way that doesn't meet the threshold of originality, or else released their modifications into the public domain. All revisions of the file (except for the possibly infringing one that was revision-deleted) are therefore in the public domain. —Psychonaut (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Isn't the better version of the file considered as different image? Does the license cover all better versions of this file no matter where they are taken from? It's doubtful. FlorianH76 (talk) 13:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- If that's the case, then the solution is not to delete the entire file, but rather to revert to the last version that is derived from the cropped version I originally uploaded and to request revdel of the infringing revisions only. But looking at the revision history, I don't think you're correct; it looks like all the changes (except one that has been revdelled for exactly the reason I describe) are incremental changes to my original scan. —Psychonaut (talk) 05:10, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- But it is obvious that this file is not cropped version from the scan of File:Soviet Life, 1983-08, № 323.pdf, the uploaded photo is taken from another not free source. FlorianH76 (talk) 22:16, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- This image (at least as I originally uploaded it) is a cropped version of a page from the scan of the original magazine (which is a separate file here on Commons), not "original file of Andropov's photo" (whatever that means). Could you please explain the legal reasoning behind your claim that all rights to the photo belong to Russian state media, particularly with respect to its copyright status in the US in light of its publication there, in 1983, without a copyright notice? Are you aware of an earlier publication in the US that did include a copyright notice, or of a registration of this photo in the US Copyright Office between 1983 and 1988? If so, please provide details so that we can verify them. If not, then it would seem that you are wrong, and that the photo can be presumed to be in the public domain in the US. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:18, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- If this is a part of public newspaper the file must be uploaded only as a part of scan of this newspaper, not as original file of Andropov's photo which is not in the public domain according to the sources I mentioned before. All rights of the original photo now belong to the state media in Russia. FlorianH76 (talk) 15:13, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Delete Uploader has been WMF-banned. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Comment Does being banned make all someone's earlier edits worthless? I thought we judged on the basis of facts. And if you look at the facts, you will notice that the original uploader is NOT banned at all. Vysotsky (talk) 09:29, 14 April 2023 (UTC)- ???? No. Lemonaka (talk) 03:48, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. According to the description, the first publication of the photo was made in the Pravda newspaper on 13 November 1982 (i.e, a year before the Soviet Life publication). This makes not U.S. but Russia the country of first publication, so we must consider COM:Russia's copyright issues. Since it's not free in Russia till 2053, it cannot be on Commons. Commons:Licensing: Wikimedia Commons only accepts media… that are in the public domain in at least the United States and in the source country of the work. --188.123.231.6 19:04, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep there isn't matter where foto (better quality version) was taken from. Most important that where and how it was published (in any quality). In newspapers quality of fotos a usually not very high but it is still the same foto. Kursant504 (talk) 06:47, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per @188.123.231.6 Lemonaka (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
Deleted: First published in Russia. We need a proof that this is in the public domain in Russia. --Yann (talk) 12:31, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
