Commons:Deletion requests/File:The Imperial War Cabinet.jpg
This file was initially tagged by JuTa as no permission (No permission since). @Lord Milner: Can you provide evidence that this is a government work? I've attached a derivative work which will depend on the result of this DR. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:19, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Uploader's Response: Yes. This is not difficult. For the picture above (a collage of 3): Two were made for at the request of the UK government, and the third was donated to the government.
1) The Signing of the Treaty of Versailles was painted by William Orpen, who was paid £3,000 by the British Ministry of Information. It was finished in 1919. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Signing_of_Peace_in_the_Hall_of_Mirrors
2) Statesmen of World War I was donated to the National Portrait Gallery in 1930. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statesmen_of_World_War_I
3) The Imperial War Cabinet picture of 1917 was photographed by the Bassano Ltd., London photographers. They were a client of the English Government for decades; tens of thousands of their pictures reside with the National Portrait Gallery today. Link: https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp08062/bassano-ltd This specific picture resides with the Imperial War Museum. Link: https://www.iwm.org.uk/search/global?query=Imperial+War+Cabinet&pageSize= Although this photograph is not identified as a Bassano work, the same photograph below, taken from a book, shows that it is:
The Imperial War Cabinet.jpg
I hope this helps.
John Milner USA
The picture:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Imperial_War_Cabinet.jpg
With regards to this picture, I will send a letter to the author's heirs today. Please don't delete the picture.
- The first two pictures you used in your collage are definitely OK regardless of their government status, because the artists died in 1931 and 1930 respectively. So the Imperial War Cabinet photo is the only one that needs to be discussed. Donating a physical work isn't quite the same as donating the copyright in it, and so far there's no evidence of the latter. But it might be PD due to age anyways. COM:UK isn't clear on how works of corporate authorship should be treated. If the work is only attributable to a company like Bassano Ltd., does that count as "Unknown author"? In that case it's published more than 70 years ago so it's good to go. -- [[User:King of
Hearts|King of ♥]] ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:33, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Uploader's Response: August 20, 2020
My apologies. I cited an incorrect source for this picture. It came from the book, "Soldiers and Statesmen", written by Sir William Robertson, who died in 1933. That was 87 years ago. The correction is in place, and the right copyright codes were added.
Addressing corporate ownership, Bassano Ltd., was the contracted vendor for the UK Government in 1917. Once payment was exchanged for services, copyright ownership transfers as well. Please check the, "Work made for hire rule" in this link:
https://corporate.findlaw.com/intellectual-property/ownership-of-copyrights.html
Uploader's Response: September 2, 2020
I believe that the UK Government owns this picture, and therefore it is in the public domain for public use. Bassano, Ltd., took the photograph in 1917. When it went out of business in 1962, the government took ownership of their negatives. Please read these two links: https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp08062/bassano-ltd https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp06938
There is a derivative author, from the book where I found the picture (he added the captions (names) at the bottom of the pic). However, he died in 1933, 87 years ago, causing his copyright to expire on January 1, 2004.
For these reasons, the picture is good to go.
With reference to the Imperial War Cabinet picture, please note: The photograph was taken in 1917, the company went out of business in 1962, was reestablished in 1963, and ceased operations in 1979. The question here is, "Do businesses have perpetual copyright status, unlike persons, who eventually die. [https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp10083/bassano--vandyk-studios Link {{PD-old}} Under "fair dealing", Link, a law written in 1988 (before the days of the internet), the law should apply here because it meets the following criteria of the link above (paragraph 6, subparagraph "Research and private study", the 4 bullet points):
- The copy is made for the purposes of research or private study.
- The copy is made for non commercial purposes.
- The source of the material is acknowledged.
- The person making the copy does not make copies of the material available for a number of people.
With regards to the last bullet point, the law was written with regards to photocopy machines. This is far removed from an Encyclopedia Brittanica like publication. When properly applied, "fair dealing" should make a wikipedia editor's career easier. For this reason, a new tag should be added to the list found here.
The government allows use of the picture under {{CC-BY NC-SA 4.0}}
The derivative author (who added the captions), died in 1933, thus the 70 year rule applies under {{PD-old-70}}
Lord Milner (talk) 01:36, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Kept: I think we can keep it as {{PD-UK-unknown}}. --rubin16 (talk) 11:04, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
