Commons:Deletion requests/File:Sysmän pyhän olavin kirkko 1893, tekijä Boisman Torsten.jpg
Copyright violation. The drawing is by Torsten Boisman, and according to this [1] he was still alive in 1954 and therefore the time limit of 70 years has not run out. Pxos (talk) 11:08, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
- It's released in Finna by Museovirasto (musketti.M012:HK18930324:1) and licence is CC-BY-4.0. I updated the file information. --Zache (talk) 14:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
- Torsten Boisman has made the drawing and died apparently in 1958. So his descendants hold the copyright for 70 years, i.e. until 2029. It cannot be licensed as CC-BY by an organisation that keeps the original drawing in their possession or has taken a photograph of the drawing. It simply is not free. --Pxos (talk) 14:44, 24 August 2019 (UTC) Addendum: If Boisman family have given away their copyright to Museovirasto, that is another matter. But we cannot know that. --Pxos (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
- You are inventing your own rules from thin air. The Finnish Heritage Agency is easily good enough source for us related to the medata of the images. --Zache (talk) 14:49, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
- So I have made up the concept of copyright altogether? --Pxos (talk) 14:52, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
Keep Museovirasto (Finnish National Board of Antiquities) has released this image under a free license. There is no evidence that they were not within their right to license it. Jni (talk) 08:34, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
Keep The Finnish Heritage Agency has released this image for free use, among thousands of other images released, announcement here. Antilope (talk) 18:37, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
Comment The image is also available in the Europeana Collections (initiative of the European Union), and marked there similarly for free reuse, CC BY 4.0. Antilope (talk) 23:01, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
Doesn't anyone take into account the fact that this is a photograph of a drawing? There are two different scopes of copyright: 1) The copyright that applies to the work of art; 2) the right to hand out licenses to the photographs that have been taken by someone. I have, hanging on my wall, a portrait of my grandfather. It is a painting from the 1950's and as far as I know, the artist died in the 1970's. If I take a photograph of that painting, all I can do is to release the photograph into public domain (by releasing it under CC-0 for example). Taking a photo of an oil painting does not and it very well cannot alter the copyright status of the painting itself. --Pxos (talk) 08:49, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
- As you can see from the image, it has the markings S.M.Y. F.F.F. These markings stand for Suomen Muinaismuisto-yhdistys (Finnish), Finska Fornminnesföreningen (Swedish). In other words, the drawing has been made for The Finnish Antiquarian Society. Between 1871 and 1901 the society organized so-called art history expeditions documenting churches, castle ruins, manors and public buildings. As a stipendiary of the society, Torsten Boisman, a student, was doing similar documentation in 1893 (see [2]) in the Tavastia region. The drawing of the Sysmä church was made by him in 1893, and very clearly for the Finnish Antiquarian Society. I see no reason to doubt that the copyrights related to the art historical documentation have been transferred to the society, and subsequently to The Finnish Heritage Agency, because it has recently released the image for free reuse under CC BY 4.0. —Antilope 18:33, 7 September 2019 (UTC) [Edit: removed some incorrect speculation.] Antilope (talk) 14:49, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
E-mail from Museovirasto: Tosiaan kyseisen teoksen tekijän Torsten Boismanin (1872-1958) tekijänoikeus on voimassa. Pahoittelen oikeuksienhallintaan liittyvää virhettä. Poistamme kuvan verkkopalveluista. Teoksen käyttöoikeus edellyttää käyttöluvan saamista tekijänoikeudenhaltijalta tahi sitä edustavalta taholta. From this I gather that Museovirasto did not have the legal competence to grant free reuse (CC BY 4.0), and did that in error. They also say they are going to remove the file (it still is there [3]). If it disappears from Musketti, I would take that as a strong indication that the license is not valid. We'll see. --Jmk (talk) 13:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- The picture has disappeared from Musketti: [4] gives "Tapahtui virhe". The stance of Museovirasto seems clear: They no longer grant CC BY 4.0, and they did not have the competence to do it in the first place. The claim of a CC BY 4.0 license should now be removed, and the picture too. If someone now adds a CC BY 4.0 claim to the file, they will be doing that on their own risk. --Jmk (talk) 16:44, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
Deleted: per nomination. . Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 21:40, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
