Commons:Deletion requests/File:Schliemann1910.png

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Schliemann1910.png

[edit]

Unlikely to be own work as claimed. Its copyright status remains unclear. AFBorchert (talk) 08:51, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I add some other scans of old postcards to this discussion, all uploaded by User:Xenos2008. They are all magnificent scans. But this does not make them own work by the uploader nor does this relieve him of the obligation to research their copyright statuses:

All these postcards appear to be of Athens. If they have been published in Greece, they are per article 29, section V of the Greece Copyright Law protected for up to seventy years after the death of the author. Even afterwards, the states upholds the moral rights of the author, i.e. the photographer must be named, if known. If, however, these photographs are anonymous or pseudonymous works, they will be public domain 70 years after their publicaton. For this, however, we need sufficient research to be exercised which has not been the case here. In none of these cases, anything has been done to document the opposite page of the postcards and we do not know if any attribution has been removed from the picture side. Likewise, any research towards the publication dates is also missing. At that time there were probably not too many photographers in the business of printing postcards. Hence, some documentation and research could help to keep this pictures. But this kind of work has to be done. --AFBorchert (talk) 09:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you knew anything about law, you would have read the link you provided and would see in Art 68 that the law is not retroactive. Since the first basic copyright law was passed in Greece in 1920, there is no copyright protection for images dated around 1900. The reverse of the postcards do not carry dates -- but they are generally known by historians to have been issued around 1910-1915, with the images older than that. Contrary to your assertion, there were many Greek printers publishing postcards at the time and the imprint sign on the reverse of the card is not an indication of who actually issued the card. Do not try to impose your rationalistic value system on other countries, whose histories and legal forms are not the same as yours. You are obliged to observe Greek law, since there is no European copyright law -- only directives that cannot be retroactive in effect.
Perhaps it would be helpful if wikimedia employed some professional lawyers, instead of this nonsense. Xenos2008 (talk) 10:37, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Postscript -- another point of law. Substantial alteration of a PD images can create a new copyright, as clearly determined by case law in all EU countries. I do not assert any commercial copyright over the highly improved images, but release them for general use. They are all available now on flickr where my personal rights are not abused in the same way as is happening over here on wikimedia. Xenos2008 (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
First and foremost, you have to provide proof that these images are in the public domain. You failed to do that. Secondly, the moral rights of Greek copyright law require you to research and attribute the photographer even if they are in the public domain. Thirdly, if you plead to apply article 68, you need to provide a proof that these postcards were in the public domain in 1997. Nothing of this has happened here. Finally, even the Greek copyright law requires originality to be applied. A scan, even if exercised with significant technical merit, does not provide that as the aim is to represent the original work as faithfully as possible. The sweat of the brow has been rejected in the United States and it does not appear to be a concept of Greek copyright law. Finally, this is a project of the Wikimedia Foundation and according to their position faithful reproductions of two-dimensional public domain works are considered to be in the public domain on their sites independent from the laws of their source country. --AFBorchert (talk) 11:10, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I do not have to show anything of the sort. They are technically not so much in the public domain as not protected by copright, for the legal reasons I have already stated. Secondly, I am not in the slightest bit interested in US copyright law. The applicable law here is Greek, which clearly you do not know, and I assert my own copyright under Greek law. The modified scans do not attempt to portray the original work: they attempt to recreate the historical reality, with modern technology and professional judgement combined to go way beyond the actual images printed. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I do not care if they are deleted. I now post only on flickr, which is more assertive of contemporary legal rights as opposed to the fictions that wikimedia is obsessed with. Xenos2008 (talk) 11:43, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per User:AFBorchert's argumentation. Applies also to File:Zappeion 1900.jpg. --High Contrast (talk) 11:31, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Schliemann1910.png&oldid=529165717"