Commons:Deletion requests/File:RSAF Roundel 1990-present.svg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:RSAF_Roundel_1990-present.svg

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The lion head symbol was created in 1986 by the Government of Singapore (see "Lion head symbol of Singapore"), which thus owns the copyright in it. Unfortunately, in Singapore there is no rule that works by the Government are in the public domain: see "Commons:Licensing#Government works". The work will enter the public domain 70 years after the end of the calendar year in which the work was made, i.e., 1 January 2057. I have transferred it back to the English Wikipedia as "File:RSAF Roundel (1990–present).svg". — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 08:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. First, this file is used EXTENSIVELY on all Wikipedias. Second, I doubt the copyright extends to the roundel. Third, according to the Guidelines for Use, the symbol is available for public use, and while under conditions, it is not explicitly reserved by the Government. Lastly, if the file IS a vio, it can be altered (see previous versions as example), deletion is not neccesary. Fry1989 (talk) 08:10, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment:
  • Extensive use is, regrettably, irrelevant to the issue. If a file is a copyright violation, then it has to be deleted even if it is in use in every single Wikipedia project. Also, the extensive use appears to be because the file is used in templates.
  • Section 197(4) of the Copyright Act of Singapore is clear: an artistic work (other than an engraving or a photograph) made made by or under the direction or control of the Government is in the public domain only if 70 years have passed since the end of the calendar year in which the work was made. There is no legal requirement for the Government to specifically state, "I claim copyright over this work".
  • Since the lion head symbol was created in 1986, I do not think its use in the RSAF roundel in 1990 gives the Government fresh copyright over the symbol. If I am wrong and it does, this extends the period of copyright to 70 years after 31 December 1990, i.e., 1 January 2061.
  • The Government's guidelines on the use of the lion head symbol state:
    • "An individual, organisation or company can use the Lion Head symbol for purposes of identifying with the nation.
    • "While Singapore companies may use the Lion Head symbol as a means of identifying themselves with Singapore, it should not be assumed or taken to indicate any kind of official endorsement of the companies' products.
    • "The Lion Head symbol should be used in good taste. Its design should not be modified in any way nor have any words or graphics superimposed over it. However, it may be depicted in outline form, be embossed, or portrayed as a watermark."
Unfortunately, this does not amount to a statement that the symbol is not copyrighted, nor that people may freely modify it or use it for commercial purposes. Thus, it cannot be uploaded to the Commons.
  • Any altered version would have to be substantially different from the current version, otherwise it would still amount to an unauthorized derivative work. In any case, whether or not an altered version is successfully created, this current image still has to be deleted as a copyright violation.
It would be great if we could retain the symbol in the Commons, but as the law stands I do not see any way this can be done. Sorry about that. — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 08:25, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep I can't imagine this being such a major vio issue, but if push comes to shove then we'll just upload it in Wikipedia. And skip out on commons all together. Jetijones (talk) 19:44, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Already done, as mentioned above ("File:RSAF Roundel (1990–present).svg", and see also "File:RSAF Roundel (1990–present, low visibility).svg"). If it's a copyright violation, it's a copyright violation. As they say, there's no such thing as being a little bit pregnant. — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 19:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: JackLee is expert on Singapore law -- hard to disagree with him.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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