Commons:Deletion requests/File:Polish Paratroopers.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Polish_Paratroopers.jpg

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This image would appear to be a duplicate of this image. I'm fairly sure the second (ie. British caption) image is correct, and this would seem to back it up. 81.156.184.142 10:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kept. The two images are not identical. As for the caption, either correct it, or, if it is controversial, let the re-users decide which one they want to use. –Tryphon☂ 09:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Polish_Paratroopers.jpg

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Correctly labelled, sourced and higher resolution image

This image is a crop of this image and is incorrectly titled and labelled. Although it is smaller than the other image it is obviously just a crop, not to mention an inferior copy. The photo description page at the IWM is fairly clear. Note, the link to IWM will drop out after about a week, so just search for image BU 1143. Ranger Steve (talk) 17:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How? Ranger Steve (talk) 18:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


This image is a copy of an existing image, is incorrectly named, and is of very poor quality. At least 2 lines of the Deletion Policy stand out:

  • The page has an incorrect name, and a page with a correct name exists (Also: consider a redirect). Renamed files can be tagged with {{Duplicate}}.
  • Files that add nothing educationally distinct to the collection of images we already hold covering the same subject, especially if they are of poor or mediocre quality.

Most importantly it is of terrible quality. Look at the 2 images next to each other - you can barely see half of the details in the Polish version, it's grainy and has very poor colour balance. A crop might be useful if it was a higher resolution zoom of an image, but this isn't and information and detail is lost as a result. Seriously, how does this add anything to Wikicommons? How does it make sense to keep both of them? Ranger Steve (talk) 19:40, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I insist, this file is not a duplicate of File:Two British Airborne troops dug in.jpg, and it is in use on 18 pages in 13 projects. To solve all the problems you mention, you could crop File:Two British Airborne troops dug in.jpg to the same view, upload it under an appropriate name, and only then tag this file as a duplicate. Simply deleting a file that is in use, or replacing it with a non-equivalent picture, is not a good solution. –Tryphon☂ 20:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Only 3 pages are listed as linking to this file. Otherwise it seems to serve no other purpose. Add a redirect. Ranger Steve (talk) 20:14, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
These are only the pages on Commons. See CheckUsage for full usage information. –Tryphon☂ 20:18, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And every one of them labels it incorrectly. These people are not Polish. As a result of a dodgy image, 13 Wiki articles are incorrect. There is no alternative that I know of that can replace this image in its current usage, so tagging this as a duplicate won't help. I'm sorry, but I fail to see how doing anything other than deleting an inaccurate image can help. It is factually inaccurate. Changing its name isn't going to help Ranger Steve (talk) 20:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please read COM:NPOV; it's not up to us to delete "wrong" images used by other projects. People writing articles are supposed to check their references and make sure the facts they're describing are based on reliable sources. If they don't, well, too bad. But there is nothing wrong with the image itself, only with how it is used; so there is nothing we can do from here. –Tryphon☂ 21:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So it's ok for Wikicommons to host an image, knowing it is factually wrong, and allow other wikiprojects to make the mistake of trusting us? I find that difficult to comprehend. This is even worse than the image just being poor, it is totally wrong and misleading. What about this line from COM:NPOV:
Of course, if the author has made a factual mistake that is not seriously disputed, the image (if not in use) may fail the test of being useful for an educational purpose, and can be deleted on that basis.
All 13 authors have made a factual mistake, as has the author of the image. Ranger Steve (talk) 21:31, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
if not in use. –Tryphon☂ 21:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So to summarise, although this image could be deleted on the grounds that it is a) wrongly titled and described, b) of poor quality and c) a poor duplicate, it should be kept because 13 wiki articles use it. The fact they are using it totally wrongly becuase of the incorrect image description isn't our problem. How would you resolve this? It isn't practical to contact every wikiproject. Renaming or uploading a newer version of the image won't solve the factual inaccuracies problem because no-one is going to notice a name change or redirect if it doesn't make a change on their own watchlists. Even then we can't guarantee they could understand the difference. Wikicommons may not have to worry about Original Research or NPOV, but it should surely adhere to common sense and keep things factually accurate where possible. Ranger Steve (talk) 22:03, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • By the way, the name of this bad-quality image may NOT be incorrect. In the Market Garden operation near Arnhem there were many Polish paratroopers serving in British Army, in 1st Independent Parachute Brigade. It means it might be we see two soldiers in British uniforms who were born in Poland. We do not know the nationality of these soldiers... Julo (talk) 00:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You are quite right Julo, but I think they are almost certainly British. This image was taken on 18 September at Brigade Headquarters (Oosterbeek). The 1st Independent Polish Brigade dropped a few miles south (and south of the river) on 21 September. Although we don't know the exact nationality of these 2 men, they are of a British unit and almost certainly British. Ranger Steve (talk) 06:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete - A falsely labelled low quality image (where correctly labelled higher quality is available) is simply out of scope for Commons. If it is still (mistakenly) in use, then those uses must be replaced. If you want a cropped version, make a better quality crop from tbe full original with correct name and description. --Latebird (talk) 11:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers Latebird, I agree. I'd also suggest that a new cropped version of it would really serve no purpose, and I'd be strongly against redirecting to the correct image or a new cropped version as they are showing a different subject and 13 articles would continue to be wrong. Ranger Steve (talk) 17:34, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See The Battle of Arnhem at Wikipedia (I wrote it). All of the sources agree on these dates. I did forget that glider elements of the Polish Brigade landed on the 19th, but they were largely wiped out on landing. All the photos at Arnhem were taken by the Army Film and Photographic Unit, 3 members of whom accompanied the British. Most of the images are now in the IWM archive. If you click on the "back to results" link on the above link you can see many of the others, mostly credited to Sergeant Smith. As for contacting the 11 other wikiprojects wrongly using this image, I don't think that's practical. Besides which there is no alternative image. I'd have thought most editors on the various articles would notice a missing image and remove the link anyway. But if this page merely redirected to the correct image, they may not notice the difference and would continue to label it as Polish paratroopers. Ranger Steve (talk) 18:05, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced all versions of "Polish Paratroopers.jpg" by "Two British Airborne troops dug in.jpg" and deleted the first. Yann (talk) 19:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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