Commons:Deletion requests/File:Greater Syria Map.png

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Greater Syria Map.png

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No scope. Fry1989 eh? 20:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are any of the following in scope?
If so, what distinguishes them from the nominated image? —Psychonaut (talk) 17:10, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think any of them have scope. What's your point? Fry1989 eh? 19:20, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by "have scope". Do you mean "are in scope"? —Psychonaut (talk) 20:13, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The two are the same thing. They have no SCOPE. Fry1989 eh? 20:17, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you say so, but I find it strange that policy you cite doesn't use the term in the same way you do. It says that Commons has a scope, and that the individual media files it hosts are or are not in that scope. —Psychonaut (talk) 08:30, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep The image serves to illustrate irredentist claims over Greater Syria and is in scope on that basis. Such flag-maps are common nationalist propaganda—one sees them all the time on posters, lapel pins, etc. As hinted at above, there are dozens already on Wikipedia and/or Commons, many of which are in use to illustrate nationalist claims. See Category:Irredentism and Category:SVG maps incorporating flags - Irredentist. I suspect this nomination isn't really about scope but more about User:Fry1989's ongoing dispute with the uploader. Fry1989 himself has uploaded many similar images such as File:Flag map of Greater Romania.svg and File:Flag map of Greater Italy.svg. —Psychonaut (talk) 08:30, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was asked personally to make those two, and they have historical context where Italy and Romania actually controlled the lands shown in the map. These irredentist claimant maps are sketchy at best. Fry1989 eh? 16:46, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: . .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 10:30, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Greater Syria Map.png

[edit]

No reason was given for the keep and this map is historically anachronistic. The flag shown did not even exist until the 1950s. Unlike the two maps listed that I uploaded, this does not have historical context. It is a fiction. Fry1989 eh? 15:49, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nearly all irredentist maps are historically anachronistic, as they reflect expansionist aspirations which may never have been realized in the past, or which may have been realized but never together at the same time in history. This is doubly true of flag-maps, since national flags rarely remain constant across history. Applying your criteria consistently would eliminate the vast majority of irredentist maps on Commons, whether or not they contain flags, and therefore deprive Wikimedia projects of a considerable amount of educationally useful material. (I should point out that, contrary to your claim, your own flag-map of Italy is just as fictional and ahistorical as this one; the flag it depicts also never flew over the entire territory shown.) —Psychonaut (talk) 17:09, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A version of that flag did, all it's missing is the Savoy arms so it's easily fixed. This is different, this flag didn't exist over any of the lands shown in the map in any form. Honestly I think most of these irredentist maps should be deleted, they're nonsense, but we're focusing on this one right now. If you want the others to go, nominate them yourself, don't try and use the fact I haven't nominated them as a reason for this one to stay. The criteria is different from map to map. I think you're more interested in obfuscating this issue by bringing up other stuff, then in dealing with the validity of this map and whether or not it should be here. Fry1989 eh? 17:39, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not citing the fact that others similar maps haven't been nominated as a reason for this one to stay. I'm saying that the issues you are complaining about are inherent to such maps, but this doesn't affect their educational usefulness, as demonstrated by their inclusion on many Wikimedia projects. Irredentist maps illustrate nationalist aspirations, not historical realities, and therefore are almost always fictional in some sense. (And as an aside, you're still wrong about your own map. The Italian tricolor, with or without the Savoy arms, never flew over Malta.) —Psychonaut (talk) 18:07, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Something that can me removed or fixed, it's still irrelevant to this map, this issue. You are trying to obfuscate, because your points aren't strong enough for this map. Tell me, why should it stay? Why should any of them stay? Fry1989 eh? 18:13, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I just did, twice (and once more in the previous deletion discussion above). If you haven't been able to identify my argument, that's OK; I trust the administrator closing this discussion will. —Psychonaut (talk) 18:24, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not to my satisfaction, obviously, or else I wouldn't be asking you for another reason. Commons isn't the place for political aspirations, least of all anachronistic ones. Italy at one time controlled Libya, Tunisia, and the Balkans, under the green-white-red tricolour (with or without the Savoy arms), so it has a very clear historical context which is why I agreed to create it when it was requested of me. Syria has never controlled the lands shown in this map, least of all under the flag shown, It has no historical context. That's a very big difference between the two. Fry1989 eh? 18:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also Syria Controled places in this map , Like Lebanon , Hatay , Diar Bekr and all the places in the map of Turkey , Mousle , Palestine , Jordan and Sinaa, this Picture is mixed with The SSNP Syria Greater Map , With the True Levant Before WWI

178.61.35.103 18:09, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

if you didn't want to delete my pictures, you are trying delete what exactly i wanted to delete about syria, i think you are now retaliation.GhiathArodaki (talk) 17:59, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Delete unless proper sourcing is provided for the map. Without sourcing of some kind, it doesn't have any educational value. Rd232 (talk) 14:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • The source appears to be the Syrian Social Nationalist Party's map of Greater Syria, though the borders around the Persian Gulf are a bit off. This could conceivably be fixed through means other than deletion. Though I agree with the need for sourcing I should also point out that the vast majority of user-contributed maps on Commons, irredentist or otherwise, are not sourced at all. —Psychonaut (talk) 15:14, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • the vast majority of user-contributed maps on Commons, irredentist or otherwise, are not sourced at all - yes, it's a common problem with user-generated maps. All unsourced maps should be chucked out unless there's some case-specific reason not to. Rd232 (talk) 15:22, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rd232 said it best -FASTILY (TALK) 21:54, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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