Commons:Deletion requests/File:Bethlen Margit 02.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Bethlen Margit 02.jpg

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This file was initially tagged by Hungarikusz Firkász as Copyvio (copyvio) and the most recent rationale was: A szerző Kallós Oszkár (1874-1955), aki még nem hunyt el 70 évnél régebben. File restored and converted the speedy deletion request to a DR per COM:UDEL. Steinsplitter (talk) 18:07, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete A kép egy változata itt található. Egyértelmű, hogy a törölt képnek és ennek ugyanaz a szerzője, azaz Kallós Oszkár. Attól, hogy a forrásoldalon azonosítatlanként jelölték meg a szerzőt, nem jelent semmit, főleg ha máshonnan kideríthető a személye. Oliv0, ismételten a segítségedet kérném az indoklás lefordításában. Köszönöm! Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:13, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep, this a different image from above one, it is obvious. User:Hungarikusz Firkász, whose account was blocked just two weeks ago for his harmful activity, used these deletion procedures as tools of personal attack against me. Prior of that he claimed that the photographer of this image was Oszkár Kallós, but did not provide any source and marked the image as copyvio (speedy deletion) in order to avoid DR. Other editors also experienced his method. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:25, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Személyeskedés nélkül nem megy, Norden? A blokkolásomnak semmi köze ehhez, semmilyen káros tevékenységet nem csináltam, de olyan rosszindulatú vagy, hogy szerintem székelni nem tudsz miatta. A törlésre jelölések nem a személyednek szólnak. Több tucat olyan képet jelöltettem törlésre, amelyekhez neked semmi közöd nem volt. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Use English, as majority of potential contributors do not understand your native language. And, please stop personal attack against me, here administrators do not tolerate this kind of offensive sentences like "szerintem székelni nem tudsz miatta". --Norden1990 (talk) 18:40, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mert az olyanokat tűrik, mint a "takarodj innen", meg a "te félanalfabéta agresszív firkász"? Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:44, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you have problem with me use talkpage instead of vandalize these deletion requests with your off-topic Hungarian sentences and/or use these request themselves as tool of personal attack against me and other editors. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:48, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
grin, User:Oliv0: Kérlek, magyarázzátok el Norden1990-nek, hogy mi a helyzet. Úgy látom, csak a sajátját hajtogatja. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:50, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
És úgy látom, a kép mellett érvelni nem képes, az egészet az én személyemre hegyezi ki. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can we please cool down? A admin will decide after 7 days based on the arguments. --Steinsplitter (talk) 18:52, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:53, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hungarikusz Firkász, please stop Canvassing against my person. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:55, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Te az angol tudásodat használod ellenem, ízléstelenül. Kénytelen vagyok a védelmemben olyanok segítségét kérni, akik tudnak magyarul és angolul is. Kérlek fejezd be a velem való foglalkozást. Ha nem tudsz a kép mellett érvelni, akkor inkább ne szólalj meg. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 18:59, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Tasteless? :) Canvassing your comrades/friends against me to push your personal attack is tasteless. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:04, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Semmi ilyen nem történt, nagyon jól tudod. Abban kértem segítséget, hogy adjanak angol fordítást az indoklásomhoz, valamint abban, hogy neked magyarázzák el a helyzetet, mert úgy tűnik, te magyarul sem érted a problémát. Szerintem épp itt az a helyzet, hogy ennél több mondanivaló erről nincs részemről. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 19:08, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, you should stop. Let's wait for your friends. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:10, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a rough translation as requested above: even if the source given for the file says the author is unidentified ("azonosítatlan"), still this photograph of Margit Bethlen by Oszkár Kallós (1874-1955) clearly allows identification as the same author [my addition: same place and about same time shown by many details]. And Hungarikusz Firkász can certainly use Hungarian if he feels more comfortable with this language, Commons has never been an English-only site. Oliv0 (talk) 19:13, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be pointed out that Hungarikusz Firkász was not blocked for finding and nominating files with a copyright issue, as opposed to what Norden1990 suggests. The nomination of this file, including the identification of the author, are actually helpful and appreciated. (Oliv0, feel free to translate this to Hungarian). Jcb (talk) 19:28, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Hungarikusz Firkász: Jcb hozzáteszi nagyjából, hogy Norden1990 állítása ellenére tmb indítása nem volt a blokkod oka, és hogy ez a mostani tmb és a szerző azonosítása hasznos és jó. Oliv0 (talk) 19:56, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A TMB indítása nem Hungarikusz Firkászon múlt. --Norden1990 (talk) 04:35, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete That's an interesting one. The image is sourced as unknown by the Library it's been hosted at. The image @Hungarikusz Firkász: linked is under copyright (which is shown by europeana as well), but it's different from the actual image. However by comparing the images it is obvious that they were photographed on the same day at the same place: all the environment, including the opened book on the table, the framed image and even the pen in the hand of the lady is the same. (Except if we theorise that she kept her desk the same all the time, with the same book opened, which I would say being unrealistic.) I would suspect that the photographer must have been the same, and in this case the image would be under copyright, similarly to the linked one. There is another possibility: the PIM (other source) know the source wrong. Yet another question is whether Mr. Kallós have worked for any institution at the time (since then the rights may have been acquired by that institiution and may have been already expired), but I have no such information handy. My opinion would be that the photographer is the same Mr. Kallos, and he is the probable rights owner, and thus the copyright may expire in 2025 (Allah willing). --grin ✎ 16:36, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I guess, the data of the Ervin Szabó Library - Budapest Photo Collection's is more reliable source than your or Hungarikusz Firkász' assumption. It is also possible that Margit Bethlen held an "open day" for various photographers... As she was the incumbent Prime Minister's spouse, it's not so groundless supposition. At least as valid as Hungarikusz Firkász' unsourced theory. --Norden1990 (talk) 04:35, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Az itt látható képnek az adatszolgáltatója a Petőfi Irodalmi Múzeum, ami nem kevésbé megbízható, mint a Szabó Ervin Könyvtár adatbázisa, tehát ez nem Hungarikusz Firkász feltételezése (csak sajnos Norden1990 nem nagyon tud elszakadni a személyeskedéstől). Norden1990 feltételezése a nyitott napról, masszívabb feltételezés, mint észrevenni a két kép közötti hasonlóságot. Életszerűbb az, hogy egy fényképész több fényképet készített, mint az, hogy volt egy ilyen nyitott nap (aminek momentán sehol semmilyen nyoma sincs), amelyen több fényképész jelen volt. Mivel van egy (több mint) lehetséges szerző, ezért a képpel az ő szerzői jogait figyelembe véve kell eljárni, tehát törlendő. Hungarikusz Firkász (talk) 20:29, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Both photos were taken during the same photo session. That makes the authorship very likely. Undelete in 2026. --Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 09:18, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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