Commons:Deletion requests/Eurovision heart-flags

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  • Add {{delete|reason=Fill in reason for deletion here!|subpage=Eurovision heart-flags|year=2024|month=December|day=22}} to the description page of each file.
  • Notify the uploader(s) with {{subst:idw||Eurovision heart-flags|plural}} ~~~~
  • Add {{Commons:Deletion requests/Eurovision heart-flags}} at the end of today's log.
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Eurovision heart-flags

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Appears to be one editor's massive passion project, however the usage of these flags is extremely limited, and in many cases there is almost zero usage of these files across Wikimedia, and the files seem to have been created and uploaded out of pure vanity. The countries and regions in the flags above are highly unlikely to ever participate in the Eurovision Song Contest, or represent regions and countries which no longer exist or where the flags are deprecated or have been replaced. In some cases images featuring the old Eurovision heart logo from before 2015 are also included in this deletion request. Additionally the use of the Eurovision logo to include flags which are not the official national flags of the participating countries is prohibited under the EBU's official guidelines for using the contest logo. (Apologies for the size of this deletion request, I only realise the scope of the request at quite a late stage) --Sims2aholic8 (talk) 22:12, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Wayback Machine, the webpage has only been listed since 2021. I cannot say exactly when these rules were introduced. I have to agree that without the formal consent of the EBU, the files must be properly reviewed by Wikimedia moderation in order to remain on the platform. Smthngnw (talk) 14:23, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also the Latin American and Canadian province logos should stay longer as the EBU recently has stated under its main ESC logo that these regions will get their own song contests. Smthngnw (talk) 14:30, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The rules were formally listed under "Brand" (see Wayback Machine extract) which existed from as early as 2017. As for the Canada and Latin America flag logos, it's unknown at this stage whether the Eurovision logo will remain the same for these contests as well, so it's too soon for hearts for these countries to remain on Wikimedia and for now it continues to violate the EBU guidelines. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:37, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Commons is bound by those rules though? As far as I can tell the only legal restrictions on Commons are copyright, not trademarks. Trademark is more about how you use an image, not whether you're allowed to distribute an image in the first place. And in any case, I don't think that a heart shape passes the threshold of originality. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 18:13, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I will say that I do not know all of the policies on Commons, and yes I will concede that the heart logo itself is most likely outside of the necessary threshold for originality, but to me it still appears like it would fall under the intellectual property rights of the EBU and their guidance should be considered here. I'm happy to be corrected if there are users out there that are more knowledgeable on this subject. To me the amount of files here does appear to be really excessive and I'm not sure what purpose they solve to be honest, but perhaps that doesn't matter? Sims2aholic8 (talk) 20:20, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe the large majority of files are not used outside of Commons, especially flags representing regions/states/oblasts instead of countries. But perhaps that's still reason enough to keep them. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 20:24, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I see people using them not only for ESC-related purposes, but also to express their love for a particular country (example). If we talk about opinions and beliefs, then I especially see a sufficient amount of use of the logos of Russian and Spanish regions. Also Yugoslavia was represented by the channels of the internal socialist republics. Smthngnw (talk) 22:33, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again I feel like this may be a stretch. While the current announcements on Eurovision Canada and Eurovision Latin America used the same logo as the Eurovision Song Contest, that is no guarantee that the final product will contain this design, so I would oppose using future use as a reason to keep files at this time. Ultimately as well these contests are only planned and have yet to materialise; consider that Eurovision Asia-Pacific was also announced several years ago but failed to be organised successfully. I will concede though that potentially the previous flags have some use, but again it's a bit of a grey area in terms of the guidance provided by the EBU. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 20:20, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What does that even mean? Grk1011 (talk) 17:41, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. As an argument I find it very weak and it doesn't counter any of the points I made when opening this deletion request. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:31, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep There's a ton of reasons to keep these images, for instance the fact that they are in use or don't have to be and could serve an educational purpose. I don't really see a valid reason to delete them though. Just because a country has deprecated or replaced a flag doesn't mean an image of it isn't useful. Some people on here seem to have a really bizarre dislike of flags and logos that aren't in current use. Their at least of historical interest if nothing else. That said, I'd be fine with ones that have already been deleted being re-deleted. Since the files should have been re-created through a un-deletion request instead of being re-uploaded. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:45, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • My concern though is with copyright status and that has not been addressed by any party of this discussion. If you believe the deleted ones should be re-deleted, wouldn't that indicate that the copyright status for the group is questionable as well? They are the same exact situation. My interest is if the reasons from before are no longer valid. Grk1011 (talk) 13:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep as long as they are all put into Category:SVG Heart-flags of Eurovision or its subcategories, and for as long as they are not made for fictional countries (like Liberland or Narnia etc.) such flag-pins are fine with me. :Sub-state entities and long gone countries are a different matter:  Delete for the ones that eurovisionize the "SPQR flag of Rome" or the "municipal flag of Flyover, Colorado". Hmmmm... Neutral on first-level substate entities, looking here at "EuroKaliningrado", "EuroKalmukia" and "EuroNueva York". I can see the appeal on user pages for these, and having them collected in one central place/category is better than having individual creations all over the place. --Enyavar (talk) 08:19, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you have any reason why those should be deleted and the ones that are currently countries should be kept, other than just personal preference? ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 12:42, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: per discussion. --Krd 11:59, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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