Commons:Deletion requests/Crazy Horse Memorial

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This deletion debate is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Crazy Horse Memorial

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I believe that since because the Crazy Horse Memorial is a private undertaking, not a government project, that images of it, and the various other models, replicas, and artworks at the memorial site are non-free derivative works. Kelly 17:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Nonsense. Keep them. The Crazy Horse Memorial Organization should be contacted at memorial@crazyhorse.org
Keep Nonsense. Have you not read all the discussions with people, who want to withdraw their donated pics from commons, with the argument: No, you can't change you licence later. It's the same in real life. This was a government work, now it's private. No reason to change the licence Mutter Erde 18:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I read the Wikipedia article and all the links from it that are still alive. I didn't see anything that indicated the monument was ever a work produced by an employee of the federal government or under a contract specifying the outcome would be a work for hire. I got the impression that it is and always has been a private non-profit endeavor. It would be helpful if you could provide the source of your claim that it was a government work.
Even if it were true that it was originally a government work, my understanding is that the monument is now being modified independently of the government (and please feel free to object if you think this assertion is false). If that's the case, then the work can definitely change from a public domain work to a copyrighted work, as a public domain work with copyrightable modifications is subject to the copyright of the persons making the modifications. (Photos of the work before such modifications would of course be unaffected.) —LX (talk, contribs) 18:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would be helpful if you could provide the source of your claim that it was a government work.... I have no idea: I'm only quoting the voter's for deletion argument, hoping he has made some thoughts (and some investigation), before he starts a deletion request. Otherwise: Do not disturb. Regards Mutter Erde 20:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I don't understand your question - I said that the statue is private, not government. To my knowledge, the statue has never been a government work. Kelly 20:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have read the "since" as "now it is a private property". In en I found this description: The monument has been in progress since 1948 and is still far from completion. If finished, it will be the world's largest sculpture... That looks to me like a Government work. In 1948 the Indians were very poor people. Mutter Erde 20:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Lakota are not building the monument - in fact, many of the Lakota don't like the whole idea. It is a private enterprise. Kelly 21:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Question: is the monument located in an Indian reservation, and if so, what does that mean in terms of applicability of US copyright laws? —LX (talk, contribs) 18:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe it is part of a reservation...IIRC, South Dakota has 7 or 8 reservations, and the Black Hills isn't included. (Actually here is a map - no reservation.) In any event, this shouldn't affect copyright law. Indian reservations are technically lands administered by the Federal Government, and U.S. law extends there. When the reservations enjoy special privileges within the law, as in the case of gambling establishments, those privileges are generally established by Congress or the Federal courts. Kelly 20:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No evidence that this was ever a government project. Lewis Collard! (hai thar, wut u doin) 23:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Except the ones on Wikipedia, Image:Crazy Horse Memorial comparison.jpg, Image:Crazy Horse Memorial side.jpg, Image:CHMem.jpg and Image:Crazyhorseface.jpg which should be moved there and have their 3d fair use tag added. There is no FOP in the US. This causes a lot of frustration over photos of recently produced important monuments, but it remains a fact. --Simonxag 23:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment See Photography at Crazy Horse Memorial and Use of Website Contents JPH-FM 16:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

why should the Crazy Horse sculpture page be deleted? Personally i never knew a sculpure existed at all, therefore if it had been deleted i would possibly never have been aware of it! Free access to the page of the sculpture makes a contribution to world awareness of the crimes committed against the native americans--83.40.143.124 08:50, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It appears the images mentioned in the deletion discussion may infringe on the sculptors' copyright, which would make it illegal to host them here. That is why. If all images on the gallery page are deleted, it doesn't serve much of a purpose, so it would probably be deleted too. Pages on other Wikimedia projects are of course unaffected aside from images hosted here being removed from them. —LX (talk, contribs) 17:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The facts of the issue are:

  1. It is undoubtedly a sculpture. Yes, a freaking huge sculpture carved out of a mountain, but we can no more call this "a photo of a mountain" than we could call a photograph of the Mona Lisa "a photo of some canvas and some paint".
  2. It is not, and never has been, a work of the United States Federal government (as one commenter has claimed).
  3. United States law does not allow distribution of photographs of sculptures, when such sculptures are still under copyright. This one clearly is still under copyright; that it has (to quote one commentator) enough originality to qualify for copyright in their own right makes no difference -- indeed, this is actually a pretty good legal definition of what distinguishes a derivative work from a plain old copyright infringement.
  4. The Crazy Horse Memorial Foundation, the copyright holders, are actively against people distributing photographs of the memorial.

With these things considered, and no thorough refutation of these facts being offered, I'm very surprised this has gone on so long. Therefore, all these photos have been deleted. Lewis Collard! (hai thar, wut u doin) 06:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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