Commons:Categories for discussion/2021/04/Category:Alsace
I wonder if this category should be split. The province (in the Holy Roman Empire from the 12th century until 1630s or so when it became a province of France, split into departments in 1790) is pretty clear. From 1871 until 1918, it was Alsace-Lorraine which was part of the German Empire which again is clear. In 1918, it was again divided back into the same three French departments (thank god) but it's just a 'region' vaguely then. The 1982 administrative region in that sense is completely separate especially in 2015 it was dissolved. The areas aren't exactly the same but it starts to get a bit confusing to keep track of. Right now, you can't find it in any France by year category unless you look under the "present-day Grand Est" category which is a bit absurd in say Category:Present-day Grand Est in the 1150s when it wouldn't be in France for almost 500 years and under a categorization scheme that wouldn't go into effect for over 850 years. It make the temporary administrative region the main point and ignores the fact that it was full province within France. Ricky81682 (talk) 02:35, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
- the 1982-2015 region was not "vaguely" defined. It had a formal status, and even if the Grand Est region was formalized, its two departments are claiming their unification under the term "Alsace" by jining their council to preserve the name "Alsace" (not three departments, because the Territoire de Belfort that was part of the historic Alsace was integrated into another formal region between 1982-2015 within Franche-Comté, now part of the new region Bourgogne-Franche-Comté, and the part of Alsace that was not annexed to Germany was integrated into the department of Moselle, in the former region of Lorraine; there was a vaguely defined region of "Alsace-Moselle", which remains today in French law for its special status about religion and work laws, coming from the "Concordat" inherited from the German law).
- So I don't know how you want to split that category: it clearly indicates the region that had formal status as a legal region of France in 1982-2015 and that is preserved culturally by its two departments (Bas-Rhin and Haut-Rhin): there's no applicable division except these two departments ! But may be you want another category for a LARGER cultural/historic region, and that would fully INCLUDE "Alsace" (= Bas-Rhin + Haut-Rhin). One such "supercategory" would be "Alsace-Moselle" (for its "Concordat", still effective today), or the historic cultural region (which did NOT fully include Moselle that was remodeled during WW1), but included Belfort... These are complications created by wars: the Franco-Prussian war of 1870, WW1 and WW2, but also some smaller changes at end of the Second French Empire). verdy_p (talk) 01:17, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
- As well, Alsace still exists now, no longer as an administrative "region", but as a territorial collectivity, grouping two former local collectivities for departments (departmental councils joined to form a unique "Collectivité européenne d'Alsace", still inside the new region of "Grand Est" that merged 3 former regions and their regional councils). Alsace also has two prefectures for the representation fo the State, in each of its 2 departmental districts (replacing the 2 former departments), but the regional prefecture applies now to the whole region "Grand Est". verdy_p (talk) 18:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)