Commons:Categories for discussion/2011/03/Category:Riverboats

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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Riverboats

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I suggest merging contents of Category:Riverboats into Category:River ships. Objections? If there's any reason to keep "boats" separate from "ships", then contents must be clearly separated - which goes where. But where's the bright line? Slap me if it was discussed before. I'm sure it was, either here or at en-wiki, but cannot find discussion page. NVO (talk) 16:34, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is always difficult to divide between ships on inland waters and seagoing ships. Just because there are always ships and boats on both types of water. E.G. tugboats can be found from time to time on the rivers and from time to time on the seas. There we have the problem, not between ships and boats, as this is a known problem, discussed before and will be discussed from time to time. You can put a boat on a ship, not a ship on a boat. But there are exceptions as tugboats, pilot boats, tenders and so on. There might even be a difference in British, American and other English. On rivers you find barges, passenger ships, tugboats towing and tugboats pushing, dredge ships and other service vessels. --have to change location, later more-- --Stunteltje (talk) 13:45, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a typical riverboat: File:Lavrinenkov302.JPG. But it's also a river ship. Should it stay in both buckets? I'm afraid that keeping status quo will end up in largely overlapping categories (large Category:Sidewheel riverboats is already in both trees). NVO (talk) 15:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For me she is definately a ship. (But even in Dutch you can call her a "rondvaartboot".) The problem is that for cargo transport on rivers we have barges, but transporting passengers on rivers no different name/type is used for a ship, passenger ships exist for inland and sea. So merging the categories in Category:River ships can be a solution for these ships, but still she has a Category:Passenger ships (by a certain country). I myself should categorise her as Category:Viking Lavrinenkov (ship, 1989), Category:River cruise ships and Category:Passenger ships of Russia. I don't even see much value in Category:River ships, as we have river cruise ships and barges. In most cases sidewheel riverboats and sternwheelers are special types of passenger ships. The sidewheelers are sometimes tugboats, used inland and at sea. I only see value for not cruising passenger ships, but who knows when they are cruising or used as ferry, hotel and so on. --Stunteltje (talk) 21:37, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of my fellow participants here can participate in multiple languages, or are fluent in multiple languages. I want to remember that the commons is supposed to serve participants of all languages.

    It has always seemed to me that a word like "vessel" includes boats, ships, sailing ships, submarines, and Category:River vessels would be a good compromise here. Geo Swan (talk) 23:52, 20 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Solves the problem in the difference between boat or ship. No objection from me, but only a question. Do you intend to add this category to just categories, individual ships/boats by name or to every image of a vessel used on inland waterways? E.g. River vessels are: Barges, River cruise schips, Cable ferries, Reaction ferries and River ferries, we have to split Vehicle ferries, add the category to at lot of Passenger ships and so on? --Stunteltje (talk) 08:42, 21 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the record, please note that passenger vessels on the Mississippi River and other American inland waters are always "boats" or "riverboats", not "ships", even if they are quite large. The only exceptions would be ocean going vessels that happened to be on a river temporarily. Also, I have never heard the term "rivership" or "river ship" in American or British usage to describe any vessel, passenger or cargo.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User:Brühl ceated new Category:Self-propelled barges and it gives us the possibility to integrate the Barges / Riverboats categories, but with another category-name: Category:Barges and Riverboats. I started a discussion on his user page:

I don't think it is a good idea to transfer barges to your new category, unless they are not to trace by name. Unless you have the intension to transfer about 1000 barges yourself to that category. First to find out wether or not old barges were self-propelled by the date of the image. --Stunteltje (talk) 07:57, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In some respect you are surely right. But whenever I searched in Category:barges, I found it not being sufficiently structured. Especially this official types of vessels (page 4) not yet could be found by categories. Auf deutsch gibt es schon seit einiger Zeit den Artikel de:Gütermotorschiff (und de:Tankmotorschiff). Now it makes sense to connect the article Gütermotorschiff and Category:Self-propelled barges by commonscat. Of course, it is not always easy to recognize a barge as self-propelled. In doubt, you simply should avoid any transfer. I especially started to transfer only such vessels that are seen in movement. --Brühl (talk) 01:52, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

and it is wrong in my opinion to restrict to European regulations. Better to make the discussion wider and it brings us at this older discussion. I think it is a good idea to use the same system as given on page 47 in the publication of the Dutch Inland Navigation Promotion. (About half of the West European inland shipping fleet is Dutch.) They give a non-official deviation in:

  • Motorised freight vessels
  • Motorised tankers
  • Push boats
  • Tugs
  • Towing barges
  • Passenger vessels
  • Freight push barges
  • Tanker push barges
  • Towing vessels (mainly Austria)

In my opinion it is a good idea to integrate the Category:Riverboats and Category:Barges in Category:Barges and Riverboats with sub-categories like this. Besides: it makes it possible also to split in the sea-going Category:Passenger ships (with an IMO number for the newer ships) and inland Category:Passenger vessels (with an ENI number for European passenger ships).--Stunteltje (talk) 09:19, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's a problem in the USA and (I think) Britain. A "barge" in the USA is never self-propelled. It is usually simply a rectangular vessel with a sloping bow. They are very different from the powered barges prevalent in Europe and combining the categories would confuse. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

kept, We have complete splitted category trees Category:Ships and Category:Boats. I see no reason to merge that for river vessels. --JuTa 02:07, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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