Einige der Unterkategorien haben mitten im Namen das Wort "Supported" mit einem großen S. Das ist falsches Englisch! Die Kategorien müssten unbenannt und alle enthaltenen Bilder entsprechend verschoben werden. -- Robert Weemeyer (talk) 07:39, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed − but beyond the spelling: what on earth is the purpose of splitting that category tree into very arbitrary subcategories?
What issue (either practical or theoretical) is that supposed to address?
Given that this category tree has for main purpose to be helpful to the Wikimedia Österreich folks, has anyone asked them whether that’s helpful or unhelpful to them (cc @Raimund Liebert (WMAT): )
@Tris T7: , I would ask you to please stop your mass-edits and discuss this here.
@Jean-Frédéric: I am Editors from Thai Wikipedia and English and others languages i made Category: of Sport, Train, Bicycles, Vehicles for purpose of using them on article i am going to write because images in this category has over one hundred thousand and does not have separate to specific category example for Sport now part of images as it not complete are in specific for sport and it need to specific for year and event of each sport and i will remove Category of sport images out of each image. If you would like to know what in last 200 files of this Category how would you find them and how do you know what images is about? if you can provide me and option i would fix all of this category by delete them out to earlier version. So what i did still not complete and i think there are still missing Category such as Real Estate or Construction or Building images and Aviation or Plane images after i get all images in place then i can start article of List of xxx articles and many more. So thank you to communicated with me before doing anything. And if you agree that i can continue until complete the whole lot of images then i will finish it. otherwise we can bring this issue to community to have more discussion and consensus for it. Thank you again for your concern but i can not use this images before put in specific Category:..--Tris T7 (talk) 23:03, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Tris T7: I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your use case. I gather you are going to create articles and you want to use pictures in it. It does not follow that you need to do arbitrary subdivisions to do that. Please be clearer on what you are trying to do (including concrete examples), and what prevents you from doing it (ie: what problem are you trying to solve?) − from there I can potentially suggest alternatives.
“If you would like to know what in last 200 files of this Category how would you find them and how do you know what images is about?” First off, this sounds to me entirely theoretical concern − why would you be interested in knowing that? Second, how does subdividing it help? This category always gets new files − who/what will add these additional categories these last 200 new files? Third, yes you can easily do that − here is a PetScan query returning the last 200 files uploaded.
I think what is really problematic here is how little discussion there seems to be (correct me if I’m wrong) with the people managing this category tree − the WMAT volunteers and staff − given how, in the future, they may have to add these categories themselves (and in the meantime, get hundreds of watchlist entries with these additional categories). This lack of discussion transpires in the most obvious way in the spelling error in the category names (as pointed out by @Robert Weemeyer: above) − now added to thousands of files.
(The most funny thing − I personally have thought for a long time that such a flat category scheme would become unmanageable at some point [for the purpose of running stats, as many stats tool will give up after a point] and would need to subdivided somehow − however, that would potentially have impact on the current workflow of the people actually needing and computing these stats, and as long as they’re happy and things work for them, then no need to fix what’s not broken)
@Olaf Kosinsky: Would you mind participating in the discussion here as well?
@Jean-Frédéric: Hi How are you? Yes I am tired because here is 4.58am and I did not have chance to sleep yet. I am happy if you would bring an issue to Global community and get consensus for this case. But Are there any policies or guideline for not allowing to do what I have done? I think what I did will be good for all Wikipedia chapters that they can use for PR and and donations. As per Categories I created are only about Bicycles, Sport, People, Vehicles, which I am trying to do the same for all chapters. And if you think what I did is wrong please kindly guide me to link to learn about it. I did because I used my common sense about it. As per if you want to find images of bicycles only from Wikimedia chapters how would you find them? Or if someone need to find only images of Sport supported by Wikimedia Chapters how to access to that? Or images of Vehicles for this chapter what is the way that I can get the same result? As donator they would like to know about way for clean energy and reduce CO2 that why I created Category:bicycles and for health Sport would fit just fine. So if you could provide me an option to access those files for the same result. Please kindly let me know. Thank you and have a good time to edit. ..Tris T7 22:17, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And one more thing why would systems or wiki allowed me to spent time to do 5x, xxx images if what I did is wrong it should catch some stewards or admins or patrollers or editors or Commons committees or systems?
And as member of Phabricator if I did it wrong I want to fix them by myself no need to fix the problem I have created. So if you can get consensus on this we can continue contribute our time to support Wikis...Thank you.. Tris T7 22:28, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Please do not take it personal just take this for just Case study to find easiest way for people to access those 52 millions files. Or just small scales as per files from Wikimedia chapters. How many file in total for Wikimedia all chapters? Or the way we communicate to improve talk page consultations 2019 as first stage. Would you like to get on facebook messenger or IRC channel to talk about it and get understand each other to clear out about this case?... Tris T7 22:44, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
@Raimund Liebert (WMAT): Hi How are you? I am great did not have a chance to rest but exciting to learn new things from Wiki every second from time i taking. So Can you tell me again what is wrong for Category:Robocup images Supported by Wikimedia Chapters ? because so far i can not see it is any issue to bring it to discussion. Category:Robocup images Supported by Wikimedia Österreich Please kindly remember for Newcomers they are not know anything you all mention above as per technical term of discussion should be more welcome and references with proper link to explain to them. Back to conversation Do you think it is useful to have all images of Robocup Supported by Wikimedia Österreich in Category?...I will step to next subject after finish this Robocup subject ok?..Tris T7 01:13, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
@Tris T7: Sorry, I have a really hard time following you. In your previous message, you presented a use case − I asked additional questions about it, and gave you a potential solution − yet you did not bother acknowledging what I wrote.
And now you present a new use case, which again I honestly don’t understand − as I said above, what problem are you trying to solve? Why are you interested in something as arbitrary as “finding images of bicycles only from Wikimedia chapters”? I call it arbitrary because, why bicycles? Why not trucks, cats, sunsets, skyscrapers? If there is no good answer to that, then this is arbitrary and makes little sense.
Besides, there are already tools to do such things − it’s called Category intersection (I quickly wrote that help page just now). FastCCI gives the answer almost immediately.
“why would systems or wiki allowed me to spent time to do 5x, xxx images if what I did is wrong it should catch some stewards or admins or patrollers or editors or Commons committees or systems” − Wikis are open systems − you are free to do pretty much anything, but you are expected to stop if someone contests it, and in general you should seek consensus before making significant changes. For your information, I happen to be an administrator here on Wikimedia Commons, and yes, I am asking you to please stop (for the third time) − yet you keep making more such changes. This is not okay.
Your goal to bring value to the Wikimedia chapters is laudable − however, did you stop to think that maybe your changes here would not bring value to some of these chapters? Because this is the case here − Raimund Liebert is not happy at all about these changes.
@Jean-Frédéric: Dear Jean-Fred I am not sure why i need to explain about my contributions. And i would like to make it short Wikimedia as up today have 39 chapters. And 39 Chapters only 2 chapters i found bicycle images and i am interested about it. And i have asked you to send me direction how to get images of bicycles from this chapter. and you not giving me information to do so.
and here to answer each of you question i need to copy to give you answer about above question.
1. Why are you interested in something as arbitrary as “finding images of bicycles only from Wikimedia chapters”? I call it arbitrary because, why bicycles? Why not trucks, cats, sunsets, skyscrapers?
Answer. Do i really need to answer this question? if yes meaning from now on when someone making category of something they planing to use for Education or for knowledge as set of video then they need to have all this question as well. but my result for education will be finish in 14 days if you could wait to see what i am using for so please try to spend time on other contributions when i finish i can remove all images out from those Category if you get consensus from Global community.
2. Besides, there are already tools to do such things − it’s called Category intersection (I quickly wrote that help page just now). FastCCI gives the answer almost immediately.
Answer . you said just now and did you tell me all of this before? Please understand i am learning just like when you first using it. So please kindly guide me for what i have asked and reply after i sent question because so far you did not response back any of my question above yet.
3. you are free to do pretty much anything,
Answer. I am doubting and a lot of people would have the same question this is not Vandalism or making any problem for Wiki and i should have rights to do what i am interesting and undo them by myself after i have done it (if it not useful for anyone but so far i am not the only person who doing it. there are 3 more and they moved category to where it should be already. Without no one concern only You. So please as you said FREEDOM then you should be cool because everything can revert and fix easily.
4. For your information, I happen to be an administrator here on Wikimedia Commons, and yes, I am asking you to please stop (for the third time) − yet you keep making more such changes. This is not okay.
Answer. Do you think i did not know that you are Admin when i am translator for Media Wiki and participated a lot of projects and also what we doing now will be part of case study for Talk page consultation 2019 as well to improve tools for talk page that for sure.
5. ::Your goal to bring value to the Wikimedia chapters is laudable − however, did you stop to think that maybe your changes here would not bring value to some of these chapters? Because this is the case here − Raimund Liebert is not happy at all about these changes.
Please stop.
Answer Please kindly get consensus from Chapter community because https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Supported_by_Wikimedia_Deutschland also related to what i am doing and planing for my proposal.
and remember this before you doing anything with Category i have created at lease respect Contributors or Editors or Newcomer or Users. by talk to them with clear message and be supportive and not drive them away.
and so far i stopped doing anything on Category Bicycles for weeks not sure what really is the case Can you provide me more information?
and Thank you have a nice day...Tris T7 21:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
by the way you Big A on your signature shown enough that you are an admin and here if you can free we can use IRC to discuss about it just let me know when you ready to discuss about the case,
Hi example file such as Elevate Festival 2019 - Graz - Truth i added Category of White letter T, White letter U, White letter R, White letter H Did it concern you or it ok ? As you know i only contributed less than 1 year so i am learning but doing my best for support and if i did something wrong then tell me teach me guide me and not be rude to me i will also do the same for polite and respect and search for best solution. Thank you...Tris T7 23:34, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi @Roy17 I am not sure about reason why did you bring the issue of Category that i agreed to stopped edit as notice from one of user. But since you brought it up you should see my contributed recently that i need to undo many of reverted file from one of sysops who accidentally reverted files that i have added in corrected category as hundred of logos files that separated out from over hundred thousands of file. One of main reason that those category created was to get attention of user who can delicate time to organise them properly with correct knowledge. But at lease to separated them to each main topics such as all Bicycle together all Trains together. All Illustration files together. All Logos file together. All sport images together. I am not sure why you believed it not useful? My question to continue contribution to you if you can answer is Since year 2015 until 2019 each year still have over hundred thousand of files per year needing to organise for the right category or category where those files belong to. Then what will you do to them? Leave it that way or at lease separate file type such as .SVG .GIF .JPEG .PDF and Audio and video? Please kindly let me know your answer and a few more thing since you tracking my contribution. I am trying to get to know you more by checking your user page and i am not understand about Album in your user page. Are those images you photographed? Or images you organised? If those images you organised so why i am not allow to have banknotes that i created for my knowledge and contribution for articles but have already been deleted already.
As per all images that supported by Wikimedia Chapters i think decision to delete or keep might need more discussion for bigger community because if decision to delete it would effect all chapter for similar category to delete as well. And also those are fund from all over the world that supported and to me i did it because i can not find way to get exactly the same result as those category. Or if you do please kindly direct me to those category just example All bicycle images from 1 Chapter Wikimedia Österreich Or images of all train. and Roy17 if you tracking the issue it been discussed since March but why would you wait until June that almost 4 months for Category that i and all other users moved forward already. For me as per question that you asked others meaning you think it should get delete. Can you give me reason to delete it? I am asking you 1 more time if you can provide exactly the same of those category then i think it should delete but look into what we made with care. and if you think Category for trains separated by year are useless please kindly get consensus more than 3 persons to delete it if not i think you could spend your time helping me undo those Logos file from accidentally reverted as it easier to do by look at file name and description it clearly show LOGO text to point category where it belong. Sorry for such a long explanation but i just want to be clear and not let the same thing happen again and again for more welcoming community and not get time wasted for same thing..Thank you..Regards..Tris T7 (talk) 19:56, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
