Category talk:Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic
There is already Category:Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. The term "Soviet Russia" is just a synonym for the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. I presume User:Niklitov wants to distinguish it from its successor, a republic within the Soviet Union (in accordance with the Russian Wikipedia's article Российская Социалистическая Федеративная Советская Республика (1917—1922), "Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic (1917–1922)" in English).
However, the current title isn't suitable for this job. It's too confusing and misleading people. I suggest to rename this category to Category:Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917–1922) (a similar name would be fine too). The same applies to its numerous subcategories.
UPD: After a closer look, some categories are really redundant. For example, Category:Soviet Russia by decade, Category:Soviet Russia by year. Now I tend to think it's better to merge it to Category:Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic rather than to create Category:Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917–1922) or Category:Soviet Russia (1917–1922), etc.--Russian Rocky (talk) 12:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Support, I suggest while to put a redirect. Maybe when there are more files, it’s better to create the Category:Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917–1922). — Niklitov (talk) 01:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Oppose Category:Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917–1922), as that was not the name it went by during that period (it was the "Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic") Josh (talk) 19:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Russian Rocky and Niklitov: Rename Category:Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic. The state was first named the "Russian Soviet Republic" but was quickly renamed the "Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic" and carried this name from 1918 through 1922, when it became the "Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic". This category should be for images relating to the period (1917-1922) as a sovereign state prior to the USSR. Josh (talk) 22:55, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
- I agree with your suggestion. Indeed, Category:Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic sounds better.--Russian Rocky (talk) 12:39, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner: Apparently no opposition, if you want to make this change. - Themightyquill (talk) 06:29, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
@Russian Rocky, Niklitov, and Themightyquill: Closed (Rename Category:Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic) Josh (talk) 07:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
The Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic and Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic are two names for the same state and should not have separate categories. In fact, it didn't change its name from the former to the latter until 1936 (14 years after it joined the Soviet Union). Charles Essie (talk) 20:50, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner, Niklitov, Russian Rocky, and Themightyquill: As participants of the previous discussion, I was wondering if you would like to participate in this one. Charles Essie (talk) 19:17, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
Comment @Charles Essie, whether or not these two are in fact the same entity is a fair question, but currently, the two categories represent distinct concepts:
- Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic - 1918-1922 sovereign state (limited recognition)
- Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic - 1922-1991 constituent republic of the Soviet Union (though it retained the former name until officially changed in 1936)
- On Commons, it is generally standard to categorize periods of independence separate from periods of constituency for a polity. This facilitates the hierarchies of Countries better than mixing the two. In this case the former fits in a different place in the Commons hierarchy than the latter. If we were to merge the two we would risk muddling the two structures.
- Additionally, if we were to determine these two should be merged on the basis of being de facto the same entity, in reality it would be potentially incongruous at that point not to just merge both into Russia which is arguably the continuation of that entity into the present day. Josh (talk) 16:31, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- I see what you're saying. For the record, I partially base my position on the fact that they do not have separate articles (at least not on English Wikipedia). Let me ask you this, would making the former a subcategory of the later be okay or would that also screw the Commons hierarchy. Charles Essie (talk) 16:43, 20 August 2024 (UTC)