We must have a cat for the island and others for the entities on it. We should do the same for the Island of Cyprus. --E4024 (talk) 09:07, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what moot means but we have quite a separation in Cyprus: UN Zone, Sovereign Bases Area, TRNC, and the southern part that continues to use the name of Republic of Cyprus. --E4024 (talk) 11:31, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks; sometimes please consider people (like me) who have learned English in school or language courses please. --E4024 (talk) 11:37, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This was debated in Commons:Categories for discussion/2018/04/Category:Ireland and I moved it, however there has been some debate about how to implement the change across the sub categories, see my talk page. I thought the categories could be split on an as/when basis but it was pointed out that the country needs the categories more. The countries of Europe still uses plain Ireland so they currently can still be found via that. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:01, 5 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. What is happening with this. There are multiple threads opened on this topic; including the vilage pump, mover's talk page and key template involved. None of these threads seem to include a proposal on a solution. The first and priority problem that needs (IMO) to be addressed is the fact that Template:Countries of Europe (derived presumably from Module:Countries/Europe) no longer links to the correct subject. If that issue cannot be addressed, then -frankly- the previous change should likely be reviewed. At least until a longer-term solution can be found. Otherwise, in honesty, the cure proposed in the previous discussion is proving significantly more impactful than the (relatively) minor symptoms it was proposed to address. For myself I do not have enough experience with the syntax in use in Module:Countries/Europe to being to offer a solution. (FYI - I opted to stay out of the original discussion. On the basis that similar and endless proposals and a decade of debate on the EN WP nearly precipitated my departure from the project. But I had hoped that someone had considered at least the initial technical implications to this move. If that hasn't been the case, and if there are no solutions forthcoming, then the outcome and actions arising from the original move may need to be revisited). Looking forward to Guliolopez (talk) 23:00, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe the countries of Europe template can be temporarily changed to link to categories for both Ireland and (the) Republic of Ireland. Something similar was done with the French region nav template when the regions were getting redefined and renamed. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:31, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have (I think) fixed this issue with the Countries of Europe template (so that it links to the category [now] associated with the state, rather than the category now associated with the island [but previously associated with the state]). Other issues (significant ones) still remain however. Namely that Category:Republic of Ireland remains woefully under-populated - given that ALL of the sub-cats have remained as they are. And, as noted above, we have a situation where (in an apparent attempt to solve a relatively small categorisation problem), an even bigger categorisation problem has been created. If no solutions can be offered or implemented then I, for myself, will be recommending a reversion of the change. As, in my view, and (seemingly the original proposers view) the current situation is worse than where we were before.... Guliolopez (talk) 23:44, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I agree with the split between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland; the name Ireland related only to the Republic was problematic (i.e. the Ireland rugby union national team represents the island, not the republic); Ireland alone can be used for cultural issues (ie Poets from Ireland, no matter whether they come from Belfast or from Dublin). .. SERGIO(aka the Blackcat)08:22, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Themightyquill. Probably not. Where are you seeing a problem? (FYI - Mine was a very quick fix. To account for the most obvious of problems. Specifically that some templates, like the top-level Template:Countries of Europe, were left pointing to the categories relating to the island rather than those relating to the state. I'm not familiar enough with all of the derived templates [or the syntax involved] to propose solutions to all of them. Short of rolling back the move.) Guliolopez (talk) 11:40, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ladies and gentlemen, I just noticed something that is not good. The category Ireland (island) redirects to Ireland. We must keep separated the island from the administrative entity known as Ireland (or Éire, or Republic of Ireland or whatever). Thus:
Ireland (island) becomes Ireland and the current category Ireland becomes Republic of Ireland (but I'm dubious: at UN the country's common name in English is Ireland, not Republic of Ireland)
The category Ireland (island) is restored and it contains both Ireland and Northern Ireland which, in turn, will contain all that must be necessarily categorized (for administrative, political, etc reasons) under the categories that identify the country; under Ireland (island) will be categorized all that related to the whole Ireland (language, culture, all-Ireland sports like rugby union and league, etc.
Hi Blackcat. What you describe (Category:Ireland (island) for the island, and Category:Ireland for the state) was the way it used to be. Following Commons:Categories for discussion/2018/04/Category:Ireland, this arrangement (a longstanding status quo) was changed. To what we have today. Which, whatever about the imperfect nature of what went before, has left all kinds of other inconsistencies. Without a concerted effort from someone to identify and fix the problems (NOT IT!), or to revert the change (which was progressed without full consideration on the impacts), I'm not sure there will be a natural resolution.... Guliolopez (talk) 00:04, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Guliolopez: , that discussion summarizes the very flaw of Commons: mirror on Commons the dynamics of en.wiki. Commons is a multinational project that incidentally uses the English language. Someone instead thinks that is the media extension of en.wiki and attempts to transfer here the (sometime bad) habits from there. -- SERGIO(aka the Blackcat)09:46, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lou6977: Your recent edit added some pings, but I don't think those people will get them. That's because pings only work if you add a signature timestamp (such as the usual four tildes) in the same edit as the ping. At least that's how it used to work: if it's different now, let me know. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:14, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Auntof6: , previously i forgot to "ping" you too bu you are the only one which replied haha. Watching my signature i see no difference from yours and i get your last ping. Did you get mine, now?--Lou6977 (talk) 08:42, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes in most cases there should be a "Foo in Ireland" containing "Foo in the Republic of Ireland" and "Foo in Northern Ireland" an obvious exception is if a category is a proper noun such as Category:Flag of Ireland since that's its actual name even though its only for the ROI (although we don't currently have a category for it at the moment anyway). Is it possible to create a script of even have a bot helping with these splits? Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:24, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to "delete" Ireland from the code, because it will properly select "Republic of ireland" first if it exists, before pointing to "Ireland" if it exists, and if you use the "all=*" parameter, the first listed item is "Republic of Ireland" (but you can create both where needed). So there's no ambiguity at all, name the categories properly, and if you have both make "Republic of Ireland a subcategory of "Ireland" (and not the reverse!).
This is not specific tyo Ireland but happens in frequent cases of homonimies where we need to distinguish them, either by containment (where it makes sens), or by a disambiguation page (containing no member page but only links in the wikicode to the separate entries (with names disambiguated by some conventional suffix)...
So a good solution to the debate is to make "Ireland" always an disambiuation page, and use "Republic of Ireland" and "Ireland island" (and no confusion will ever be possible).
Note that "Republic of Ireland" is also an official terminology (the long form) even if it is frequently abbreviated to "Ireland" in most cases, including in sports (like rugby with unified teams, but not in the Olympic games where "Republic of Ireland" is used and there's no unified team because Northern Ireland is represented by the United Kingdom), or culture, or many historic official usage when it was a single entity, or in modern usage for many topics in economy, politics, events). In all formal documents of the United Nations and the European Union and all treaties, the long form is always used to name the parties, but this does not exclude them of speaking about "Ireland" as a whole, notably for the questions related to recent conflicts (that people in the two parts no longer want to see coming back: they want now good relationship but don't want the restoration of a physical border on land and constant controls, that would be caused by a "hard" Brexit). verdy_p (talk) 06:39, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Category description: "This category is for pages specifically referring to theRepublic of Ireland." If that is the case, why have we called it "Ireland" with the category "Ireland (island)" as a parent category? This is really confusing. Shouldn't we follow the example of English and other wikipedias and have the category "Republic of Ireland" with category "Ireland" as the parent category (with category "Northern Ireland" fitting into both "Ireland" and "United Kingdom" cats)? Anatiomaros (talk) 23:24, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And if you need further proof of how misleading this is, what is somebody supposed to make of the fact that category "Ireland (island)" has as its parent category "Islands of Ireland"? Now that really is looping the loop! So, let's sum up the present situation: the island of Ireland is one of the islands of (the Republic of) Ireland and the sovereign state we call (the Republic of) Ireland is part of the island of Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of (the Republic of) Ireland, but as Ireland (island) itself is one of the islands of (the Republic of) Ireland it follows that the islands of Northern Ireland are thus islands of (the Republic of) Ireland. Is that clear so far? Good... At this point I gladly abandon this lesson in Commons geography. Anatiomaros (talk) 23:34, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is really, really hard to work with. Moreover, for many categories e.g. "Church towers in Ireland" there is a subcategory for "Church towers in Northern Ireland"! So in fact the rule "Ireland = Republic of Ireland" is not being obeyed anyway. According to the way the Commons categories are laid out, I suspect it "should" be organised with "Church towers in Ireland" and "Church towers in Northern Ireland" both being subcategories of "Church towers in Ireland (island)", but that "... in NI" should not be a subcat of "... in Ireland". A lot of problems would be solved by maintaining an "Ireland (island)" and "Republic of Ireland" [or "Ireland (state)"] distinction. TheGrappler (talk) 12:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
